Christie Abandoning Common Core in NJ

If he gets his way, that's years of curriculum development thrown away. But I guess if it's enough to get him into the debates it's all worth it?

Wait... am I supposed to be for Common Core or against it?

Seems like the right decision for the wrong reason. Curious what will replace it. Either way, the kids will continue to be ping pong balls is political take tennis.

Why the right decision? Can you or someone cogently explain what is wrong with the common core

He's posturing. Pretty sure whatever replaces common core will resemble it in many ways. The education people at the state level should be looking more closely at how we're rolling out new initiatives (standards amongst them), as well as how we're assessing the standards (PARCC) rather than the standards themselves. Agree this is all about how he's positioning himself nationally.

mod said:
Why the right decision? Can you or someone cogently explain what is wrong with the common core

While I have not reviewed the standards completely, I haven't seen anything wrong with them. That said, I do have problems with the high stakes testing and the failure to align the testing with the standards in sufficient time to test the standards.

Sorry - was a little unclear - I do believe that state officials should be looking closely at the standards BUT, I believe (as an educator) that the problems lie more in the roll out (too much too soon - need more time to build to expectations, curricular shifts) AND assessment methods/structures/timelines/purpose.

Mod, as to your question - I think the standards are pretty solid (I can't speak so much re: math as that's not my area of expertise) ELA standards address what I think most of us would want for our kids - the ability to read/write/think/speak etc.

Scratch that. For some reason I thought that he was dropping PARCC too. My mistake.

He's against Common Core, but wants to keep PARCC, but PARCC is aligned with Common Core. It's the educational version of the blunders of trickle-down economics. Total nonsense.

Can he keep PARCC while dumping Common Core?

sunnybrook said:
Can he keep PARCC while dumping Common Core?

Sure he can. What does he care if the kids fail the test miserably. I'm sure he thinks by the time the ish hits the fan he will be in the white house.

You don't have to be a conservative to hate the Common Core. There are plenty of reasons. I'm glad he's going to dump it (if he does). New Jersey had it's own standards before the Common Core, and those were considered among the strongest in the country. We did not need to spend all that money on the CC in the first place. Too bad he won't dump PARCC, though, since that will be an even bigger financial drain. But I"m not surprised since Pearson is the main financial beneficiary of PARCC revenue and guess where Pearson is located?????

It makes political sense for Christie to say that he's against CC AND that he's going to keep PARCC.

His stance against CC says that he's against federal overreach, which appeals to the Republican base.

His continued support of PARCC says that he's still for assessment that's used to evaluate teachers and combat the teachers union, which appeals to the Republican base.

Considering that PARCC is aligned entirely with CC, I have no idea how this would work but perhaps that's beside the point. Christie may be posturing, and after the review of CC standards, NJ may end up keeping CC. Or he may not give a crap what the consequences are down the line.

nan said:
You don't have to be a conservative to hate the Common Core. There are plenty of reasons.

You gonna have to elaborate on this. I have my own issues with CC but they have little to do with its specific standards. What I see as a bigger problem is how it assumes that ALL children as widgets who are expected to learn and master knowledge and skills at exactly the same rate--which anyone with children know is a prescriptive fantasy. This approach also has negative consequences for many kids.

And I have a problem with the effect that CC, and how it's being used by educrats and politicians, has on public schools.

Can he actually make this change on his own? Is there no legislative approval needed? Common core works, and will only get better as it goes on. PARCC can be debated, but this would be horrible.

I totally agree with you. The standards don't bother me as much as testing does. Are their some issues with them yes..What I don't logically see how we can get rid of the standards that Parcc tests but keep Parcc.

http://villagegreennj.com/schools-kids/south-orange-maplewood-school-district-wrangles-bullying-accusations/Steve said:

mod said:
Why the right decision? Can you or someone cogently explain what is wrong with the common core

While I have not reviewed the standards completely, I haven't seen anything wrong with them. That said, I do have problems with the high stakes testing and the failure to align the testing with the standards in sufficient time to test the standards.

Since when is Common Core a program of the federal government?

This guy would abandon his mother, wife and kids for a few votes. Let's face it, he is just a pathetic excuse for a public official.

There's a lot of posturing and political bs going on. Previous NJ standards/HSPA were actually very strong, better than in many other states. One of the driving forces behind Common Core was to establish some sort of consistency nationwide. Before the movement to CC, each state went its own way, frequently reinventing the wheel. Moreover, while one state would have a very easy high school proficiency exam, another would have a very difficult one. There was a huge range of what was required, which made no sense on a nationwide basis. But now it looks like we may be heading back in that direction, with the backlash against CC.

xavier67 said:

nan said:
You don't have to be a conservative to hate the Common Core. There are plenty of reasons.

You gonna have to elaborate on this. I have my own issues with CC but they have little to do with its specific standards. What I see as a bigger problem is how it assumes that ALL children as widgets who are expected to learn and master knowledge and skills at exactly the same rate--which anyone with children know is a prescriptive fantasy. This approach also has negative consequences for many kids.
And I have a problem with the effect that CC, and how it's being used by educrats and politicians, has on public schools.

You seem to be agreeing with me. Here is a quick one pager fact sheet detailing some of the CC's biggest problems:

http://parentsacrossamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CCSSfactsfinal5-4-15.pdf

In short: 1), CCSS was developed with "extensive involvement of test publishers including the College Board, the ACT, and Pearson, with input from only one classroom teacher and no parents" and a lot of funding from Bill Gates, and 2), The same companies who helped write the CCSS "have received multi-million dollar contracts to write the CCSS tests." These tests cost an estimated $1 to $8 billion to develop, with profits going mainly to test publishers. There is also the additional burden of computer hardware to give the tests, which is borne by the districts. Given the cost of the CC and the required tests (which go hand in hand, so Christie is just blowing gas), you have to wonder what kind of data gold would be worth the price. Especially since the old tests, now deemed ineffective, were written by the same people as the new tests.

And that's not even looking at the developmentally inappropriate nature of the standards themselves. of which you allude some of the concerns . And then there is the problem of linking the scores to teacher pay, and the lack of evidence that the standards are even needed in the first place, and the problems of student data privacy being invaded and it just goes on and on.

If you don't agree with the reason conservatives hate the Common Core, you have lots of other options for rejecting them.

The problem with the reason conservatives hate the Common Core is that it's based on superstition. They argue that it's federal overreach, refer to bureaucrats in Washington, etc. etc., all of which is BS.

Mainly they hate it because Obama has supported it. How do you reason with people like that?

Conservatives has often been against federal involvement in education, and some have wanted to eliminate the Department of Education entirely. In spite of their voiced opposition, it has become very powerful during both Democratic and Republican presidencies. And both parties are to blame for the mess. Education is one issue which brings to mind the phrase "politics makes strange bedfellows."

So, perhaps not as much BS as you might think, although they probably most hate it in a knee jerk reaction kind of way. Obama's education policies have been just as bad or worse than Bush's were. His appointment of Arne Duncan, a basketball playing buddy from his Chicago days was a horrendous mistake. "Race to the Top" is really "Race to the Trough"

nan said:
Conservatives has often been against federal involvement in education, and some have wanted to eliminate the Department of Education entirely. In spite of their voiced opposition, it has become very powerful during both Democratic and Republican presidencies. And both parties are to blame for the mess. Education is one issue which brings to mind the phrase "politics makes strange bedfellows."
So, perhaps not as much BS as you might think, although they probably most hate it in a knee jerk reaction kind of way. Obama's education policies have been just as bad or worse than Bush's were. His appointment of Arne Duncan, a basketball playing buddy from his Chicago days was a horrendous mistake. "Race to the Top" is really "Race to the Trough"

And Christie had a soap opera of events during his attempts to race to it as well. When he applied to get the RTTT money, he was all for the Common Core (and against the teacher's union, even though he wrote a letter previously saying he was a friend of the union).

I think I'm seeing a pattern.

As I recall, Common Core originated among mostly Republican governors, but once the Obama administration, esp. Duncan, began pushing the rollout, it suddenly became something for conservatives to demonize. Not really commenting on the merits and problems with CC (I have very mixed feelings about it personally), just its history.

WNYC's story on this included an audio clip from a year or so ago of Christie talking about his enthusiastic support of Common Core, in which he says "This is one of the areas where I agree with President Obama." He's changing his position largely to get away from that sound bite, I think--not out of any principled stance. I expect Iowa voters will hear that clip a lot.