CHS no class drops or adds allowed (only in Early August???)

Yes it's true, new rule by Ms. Giordano, principal Aaron, etc... Our high school students can only add or drop classes the first week of August. Yup, while they're at camp, or traveling, or taking courses, or working, that's the time to drop or add classes they have no idea how they'll feel about... since they don't know until they get to school right? That's like telling a college student, you can't drop or add in September... only before you get there, hmmm, let's say first week of August. So have some clairvoyance and know in advance. This is an attempt to tamp down any initiative in our students, if your child has walked into the "guidance office" they will be turned around. Now that's sending a strong message of guidance. The guidance dept. (Giordano) has told me, they don't want parents advocating for their student, it's not fair, but what about your child advocating for themselves which mine did (I didn't even know about this till he was turned around repeatedly). I've written to the Board of Ed and Aaron, we'll see (another iron-clad rule it seems).

I suppose we need more information. Perhaps the intent is to prevent students from cherry-picking teachers.

My kid dropped a class this week. Granted, it didn't involve any complicated swapping around but there was NO issue whatsoever. Perhaps they're discouraging big changes? The message this summer was pretty clear re: the drop add and certainly it was inconvenient to families that were away but we had to make changes then also and we just did it via email.

I think it probably depends on the reason. If the kid just doesn't like the class, I don't think that is considered to be a priority change. It's not like college at all. Was the change requested for an elective

I think we need a very clear and public explanation of why our High School cannot handle things in a more flexible manner, reflecting the variety of needs, experiences and schedules of our children and families.

On the one hand, we aspire to get kids to step up to higher levels, to advocate for themselves, and to make the most possible of their educations. On the other hand we have an inflexible administrative environment, narrow windows and policies, statements telling kids what they cannot have and do, and then back-office exceptions to those policies that favor parents and children who are best at working the system (or who have the most "entitled" belief that their problems will actually be fixed).

It seems like we have written the system to make things easier for Guidance, rather than better for our youth. Maybe Guidance staffers should have a month of unpaid vacation in September if they are not willing to support student needs then?

My kid also dropped and added this week, so I think there is some flexibility and would assume the reason for the drop/add is the key.

susan1014 said:
I think we need a very clear and public explanation of why our High School cannot handle things in a more flexible manner, reflecting the variety of needs, experiences and schedules of our children and families.
On the one hand, we aspire to get kids to step up to higher levels, to advocate for themselves, and to make the most possible of their educations. On the other hand we have an inflexible administrative environment, narrow windows and policies, statements telling kids what they cannot have and do, and then back-office exceptions to those policies that favor parents and children who are best at working the system (or who have the most "entitled" belief that their problems will actually be fixed).
It seems like we have written the system to make things easier for Guidance, rather than better for our youth. Maybe Guidance staffers should have a month of unpaid vacation in September if they are not willing to support student needs then? ">

Agree with you. I don't understand why students meet with their guidance counselor in the winter/spring to discuss courses when the new schedule, in our case, did not reflect that conversation. Kids who wish to continue with music past 9th grade have an especially difficult time.

I'm trying to find out the where's and why's and how's of this change in policy from last year. It seems to have been done stealthfully, under the radar, and just another ploy to prevent a student to take responsibility for themselves and make a change. They tell us not to be helicopter parents but then force us into that role.

I assume it was done because people complained so much when class schedules weren't finalized until October.

My experience is, if you have a legitimate reason to switch (e.g. not that you heard another teacher was better or your kid doesn't like ping pong but wants project adventure) it can be done.

I'm wondering why some people are finding the administration helpful and others not. Like Tjohn, I suspect this has to do with the nature of the change.

I would start with the guidance counselor and go from there. Your kid can go down to the office and ask to see his/her counselor, or you can call or email.

ETA: @Sender, it seems counterproductive to say this is "just another ploy to prevent a student to take responsibility for themselves and make a change." Why would anyone want that? In general, attributing malicious intent to anyone in this process seems silly at best and guaranteed to fail at worst.

my son has gone to his guidance counselor and been turned around. Same with Dr. Giordano. This is apparently iron-clad.

sender said:
my son has gone to his guidance counselor and been turned around. Same with Dr. Giordano. This is apparently iron-clad.

Clearly it's not, since others have gotten changes. it would be more helpful if people spoke with a little more detail regarding reason and nature of change, so that a pattern could be discerned.

Of course, consistent and effective communication by the district would make much of this moot.

Have you spoken/corresponded with the parties mentioned in your posts to get their perspective on the situation you describe?

joan_crystal said:
Have you spoken/corresponded with the parties mentioned in your posts to get their perspective on the situation you describe?

yes I've reached out but haven't heard any specifics yet. So still in the dark on this one. Heard from another source that a student switched teachers so apparently Dr. Giordano is "lifting the lid" a bit here and there? Makes it even more frustrating.

It's definitely not iron clad, since my kid dropped a class this past week - but what isn't clear is why your kid wants to drop - and I'm guessing that's the reason you're not getting where you want to go.

Yup, my kid changed electives as well. But there was a concrete reason that made it necessary. We've been turned down in the past if the kid simply wanted a different elective for the fun of it or wanted a specific teacher based on his friend's recommendations. [That said, if you have proof that a teacher is a "bad fit" with your kid and have made attempts to rectify the situation, they will switch you out, even in the middle of the year. It requires an OK from the department head and often, a meeting with the teacher.]

Typically, there are reasons why a schedule might HAVE to be changed, and sometimes when a schedule may be changed due to preferences. There are two thousand kids at CHS. I think that for almost all of them, if a schedule has to be changed, the administration is doing whatever they can to make it happen.

iangrodman said:
Typically, there are reasons why a schedule might HAVE to be changed, and sometimes when a schedule may be changed due to preferences. There are two thousand kids at CHS. I think that for almost all of them, if a schedule has to be changed, the administration is doing whatever they can to make it happen.

That's fine, but should not be encoded and communicated as a policy that says no changes after August 6th, and then makes many exceptions for those who know how to ask (or who have parents who know how to ask).

That isn't transparent, and is likely to lead to worse outcomes for families with less institutional-education savvy, weaker language skills, less assertive cultural/personal styles, or simply less effective parental involvement.

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ETA: We need to make sure that we don't confuse "encouraging self-advocacy" with creating a system that confers advantages to those whose parents understand educational bureaucracy, know how to navigate it, and can teach their children how to navigate it. That is an old-boys-club approach with invisible barriers to entry and advancement.

I'm not sure how bad Columbia is at this, but have had my own problems with their administrative bureaucracy, so have my concerns.

Just want to be clear - In the case of my child's schedule change, HE did the asking and while I hope he was both polite and clear in his request, he is not accustomed to advocating for himself. I have not trained him to navigate bureaucracy, I simply said, 'go speak to the guidance department.' Implications that the only kids having success with drop/add are the ones who 'know how to ask or have parents that know how to ask' are off base.

As others havealready suggested, I believe approval is based on the nature of the request. In my son's case it was a simple change, connected to electives and credit distribution and freed up time for a much-needed study hall.

Making changes is no small matter and can upset the apple-cart of the kid's entire schedule. That's why changes are allowed only for essential reasons. What was the reason the change was refused? The only explanation I've seen here is that a class wasn't a good fit?

We've had changes made twice. Once a core class was just completely missing (i.e. English). The second time, because the second year in his foreign language class was missing. It was only offered for one period, so the change screwed up his entire schedule. He lost his preferred elective, had to start school with Period 1, and ended up in an entirely new elective he thought he had no interest in: Business Law. But, getting the second year of his foreign language was a priority...and he ended up loving his Business Law class which was a happy surprise.

So, beyond, not a good fit ("they have no idea how they'll feel about... since they don't know until they get to school right?") what was the rationale given for the change?

"That's like telling a college student, you can't drop or add in September..."...not really, this isn't college.

Whether you get to change classes pretty much depends on which guidance counselor you have. Some are very helpful and want students to get electives or classes they're actually interested in and some follow Dr. Giordano's rule on no changes. Elective choices often aren't trivial. For instance, if a student wants to major in engineering, they should be able to take CAD, or if one wants to pursue a career in tv, they should be able to get into the tv class, but Dr. Giordano is not interested in this.

joanauer said:
Whether you get to change classes pretty much depends on which guidance counselor you have.

that seems to be the case. Which makes this new rule that much more frustrating. It's a new rule that is being bent. I wrote to Giordano and Aaron to find out the background/history of this new rule, who initiated it, who signed off on it, etc. So far haven't heard but I will continue to dig.

susan1014 said:

iangrodman said:
Typically, there are reasons why a schedule might HAVE to be changed, and sometimes when a schedule may be changed due to preferences. There are two thousand kids at CHS. I think that for almost all of them, if a schedule has to be changed, the administration is doing whatever they can to make it happen.

That's fine, but should not be encoded and communicated as a policy that says no changes after August 6th, and then makes many exceptions for those who know how to ask (or who have parents who know how to ask).
That isn't transparent, and is likely to lead to worse outcomes for families with less institutional-education savvy, weaker language skills, less assertive cultural/personal styles, or simply less effective parental involvement.
------
ETA: We need to make sure that we don't confuse "encouraging self-advocacy" with creating a system that confers advantages to those whose parents understand educational bureaucracy, know how to navigate it, and can teach their children how to navigate it. That is an old-boys-club approach with invisible barriers to entry and advancement.
I'm not sure how bad Columbia is at this, but have had my own problems with their administrative bureaucracy, so have my concerns.

I think that the examples referred to by others in this thread points to situations where the schedule would HAVE to be changed, ie, a required course has been left out, and schedules have to be adjusted to include it. In a situation where a student, or parent does not like a certain teacher, or wants to be with friends, or is not happy with the elective they have been assigned to (the classic situation I hear about is a student who ends up in Fiber Arts without including it as a choice), the administration's priorities may, and rightly so, lie elsewhere. I don't believe there is an "old-boys-club" approach that works. The administration of a very large public school is doing the best they can to be sure all students are served.

+1 Iangrodman. The conspiracy theorists really need to take a rest

There shouldn't be so many problems with electives. The school should figure out which classes are regularly oversubscribed, such as CAD, TV, Robotics, etc. and add more classes in those areas. The classes that students are mostly forced into should be reduced or eliminated.

joanauer said:
There shouldn't be so many problems with electives. The school should figure out which classes are regularly oversubscribed, such as CAD, TV, Robotics, etc. and add more classes in those areas. The classes that students are mostly forced into should be reduced or eliminated.

There's more to it than that, though. When my kid was a freshman, she wanted Art I and, since she planned to take AP Studio Art later on and possibly major in Art in college, she actually 'needed' it but was shut out because a bunch of kids who had not selected it were assigned there. Ultimately, one of the art I teachers went to Guidance and added two more seats to her class for my kid and one other. But that only happened because we knew the teacher already. It shouldn't have to happen that way.

sac said:

joanauer said:
There shouldn't be so many problems with electives. The school should figure out which classes are regularly oversubscribed, such as CAD, TV, Robotics, etc. and add more classes in those areas. The classes that students are mostly forced into should be reduced or eliminated.

There's more to it than that, though. When my kid was a freshman, she wanted Art I and, since she planned to take AP Studio Art later on and possibly major in Art in college, she actually 'needed' it but was shut out because a bunch of kids who had not selected it were assigned there. Ultimately, one of the art I teachers went to Guidance and added two more seats to her class for my kid and one other. But that only happened because we knew the teacher already. It shouldn't have to happen that way.

And this is exactly what I mean...We seem have a system that says "no changes", but a reality which finds extra flexibility for some kids, but not all kids.

It does not take a "conspiracy theorist"** to suggest that under these circumstances we will see uneven outcomes across children based on parent and child ability to advocate/push effectively, and that outcomes are likely to be better for those who know to advocate in spite of the "rules" and for those who know how to do it in a polite-but-tenacious American middle class style.

(**thanks for the insult, FWIW, deborahg...I didn't express myself well enough if you thought I was suggesting an active conspiracy, rather than a system that simply and unthinkingly reinforces middle class "privilege")

Sac's kids and my kids will get what they need, on the whole, because we have the District knowledge, organizational savvy and tenacity to make sure of it. As sac says, it shouldn't have to happen that way.

(and, to what someone else said, we should try to figure out how to offer more sections of classes that are routinely oversubscribed)

Sorry if I was unclear, @susan1014, but I don't group you with the "conspiracy theorists." I may not agree with all your arguments, but I do agree that the system favors the well-informed and those skilled at advocacy.

I posted about this new "rule" back in August when the Guidance department sent out an email blast the week before they set a date for the drop adds... It was a significant change to how drop adds are processed without sufficient notice to parents. Otherwise I am fine with this new rule going forward...

Even though I posted on this issue, since I left the drop add duty to my daughter...we still missed the one week deadline... she ended up staying in the elective.

sac said:

joanauer said:
There shouldn't be so many problems with electives. The school should figure out which classes are regularly oversubscribed, such as CAD, TV, Robotics, etc. and add more classes in those areas. The classes that students are mostly forced into should be reduced or eliminated.

There's more to it than that, though. When my kid was a freshman, she wanted Art I and, since she planned to take AP Studio Art later on and possibly major in Art in college, she actually 'needed' it but was shut out because a bunch of kids who had not selected it were assigned there. Ultimately, one of the art I teachers went to Guidance and added two more seats to her class for my kid and one other. But that only happened because we knew the teacher already. It shouldn't have to happen that way.

I would be curious to know why a situation such as above occurs. The meeting with the Guidance Counselor in Spring should help to avert such situations, but from personal experience somehow this does not happen. It looks like from the CHS handbook sent out today, that we have just 10 counselors for 1,900 kids. Maybe it should be a district priority to recruit more counselors.

I don't think we need new counselors. We just need a guidance program that seeks and gets students to have their preferences acknowledged. Currently, it doesn't seem as if they pay any attention to the choices of the students.