College Application Process / FAFSA

My eldest is now a senior at CHS and I am not really sure how that happened. I remember the Clinton ice cream socials like they were yesterday. So, we were going over the Common Application last weekend and it seems pretty straight forward as do the applications that you have to mail in (or applications done directly through the colleges website). We have the colleges that she wants to apply to (safeties, fits, reaches, Navianace is a great tool) and I am about to start the FAFSA stuff on Oct 1. We'll get the separate FAFSA id's, one for her, one for us. I am going to read up on the FAFSA, make sure I have all the documents ahead of time. The college essay is almost done(taking one of the SOMA adult school classes to help with it) and the requests for recommendations are underway.

Questions:

Is there anything about the whole application process that you wished you had known ahead of time?

Mistakes that you made on the FAFSA / CEEB Profile ?

Did the grandparents gifts/529 effect the FAFSA?

How not to lose my mind during the whole process?

Regards,

RCH

You sound pretty organized, which is the key to the parents' role. The FAFSA is not fun, but if you plan and prepare and allow enough time (it takes a few hours, especially the first time) it is not the crises it becomes if you try to rush it at the last minute.

This is a long process, especially for the kids. Breathe deep, have reasonable expectations, and find ways to make your lives together about something other than this process for the next few months.

max_weisenfeld said:

You sound pretty organized, which is the key to the parents' role. The FAFSA is not fun, but if you plan and prepare and allow enough time (it takes a few hours, especially the first time) it is not the crises it becomes if you try to rush it at the last minute.

This is a long process, especially for the kids. Breathe deep, have reasonable expectations, and find ways to make your lives together about something other than this process for the next few months.

Excellent advice.

A few things:

1. Don't just blindly fill out Fafsa and hope for the best. FIRST do the Net Price Calculator for each college your child is applying to. Every college is required to have one, and, for the most part, they are pretty accurate. The NPC will give you an estimate of how much financial assistance you can expect to get at each school. You can select school or rule them out based on your NPC results. As an example, here's the link to the Rutgers NPC: https://financialaid.rutgers.edu/tools-and-resources/net-price-calculator/

2. Some colleges also require you to complete the CSS Profile, which is an additional financial aid form. The colleges that required the Profile are generally the most generous with aid.The Fafsa is just for federal aid. the Profile determines the school-funded aid.

3. A 529 that YOU own with your child named as beneficiary is considered a parental asset. It would be "assessed" at 5.64%, meaning that 5.64% of the total value of the 529 is counted as an asset. If the grandparent owns the 529, there is no question on Fafsa about that, although the following year the distribution of the funds from the grandparents' 529 is counted as student income on the Fafsa (although I do not think it is counted as income for IRS purposes) -- potentially reducing aid eligibility the following year. Most importantly, if any of the schools your child applies to requires the Profile, they will surely ask about other sources of assistance from family members, friends, etc.

4. Remember that the Fafsa coming out on October 1, 2016 is asking for your 2015 income. This is the first Fafsa cycle ever to ask for income from two years back (two years back from the date of college entry).

5. Do everything EARLY. If any of the colleges on the list offer early action, do it. If any of the colleges offer rolling admissions, send in the app very early.

6. Show as much interest as possible. "Demonstrated interest" is becoming more and more important. Colleges want their accepted students to enroll. If they don't get the sense that the applicant is truly interested, they might send a rejection letter or waitlist the candidate, even when the student has qualifications that exceed the average for that school. That's often what accounts for the shock when we hear of top-notch students rejected from colleges they thought were safeties.

Good luck!

These two sites are indispensable for understanding financial aid. I learned everything from studying these sites.

http://www.finaid.org/about/ This one is run by Mark Kantrowitz, who is a noted financial aid wizard. Follow him on Twitter for useful reminders, advice, and updates.

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/ This one is run by Lynn O'Shaughnessy. It has info about college admissions and financial aid. It's much easier to read than Mark Kantrowitz's site, which is very dry.

I went to Rutgers NPC:

https://financialaid.rutgers.edu/tools-and-resources/net-price-calculator/

and did the Rutgers 2016-17 estimate just for the sticker shock of it:

Rutgers University Direct Cost

Tuition & Fees
+ 14,567

Room & Board
+ 12,756

Total Direct Costs
$27,323

Rutgers University Indirect Cost

Books & Supplies
+ 1,350

Other Expenses
+ $3,976

Total Indirect Costs
$5,326

Total Cost
$32,649

Then it tells how much (or little) aid and/or loans you'd be eligible for.

Because this cycle Fafsa is coming out earlier and using 2015 Data - you can use the IRS retrieval tool which makes things simpler . If your current income is significantly different (lower) you can contact the individual schools to find out about amending information directly.

rch2330, you sound like you'd already be aware of this, but just in case: There's a financial aid seminar at the high school next Wednesday night at 7. (We're in the same boat as you are, including HNTLMMDTWP.)

HNTLMMDTWP: How not to let my mother drive the whole process?

Thanks everyone, a lot of good information. The sad thing is that at 32K Rutgers is a bargain compared to a lot of the private schools (most are in the 50K to 65K range, other state's public university's are usual in the 40K to 50K range(UMass, UVM, etc.)). I definitely plan to go to financial aid seminar at CHS. I went to last years as well, in preparation for the beating to come. Last night was senior night at CHS, they had FA info there as well. One item that was missing(not in the power point presentation) is that if your child attends a NJ state school, NJ has it's own financial aid form: http://www.hesaa.org/ .

RCH

We just went through with our oldest last year. A couple of things surprised me. First, many schools require an extra essay, which can take as long to write as the common app essay. So, make sure she leaves time to answer any extra essay questions. Second, to be eligible for merit scholarships, applicants have to submit apps early. Make sure she researches those deadlines. Third, Naviance statistics didn't end up being very good predictors of where my daughter got accepted/rejected. I thought if that magic red X was outside the average, she would be in good shape at every school. I was wrong. Finally--and most importantly--it all ends up working out in the end. If she is organized and she has done her research about the schools to which she is applying, she will end up at a place that is a really good fit for her. Good luck. It's an exciting, but stressful year!

Anyone else find that Naviance wasn't a good predictor of acceptance? It's our primary tool to really get a feel if the school is safety/fit/reach.

I am wondering if what Shoshannah said about "Demonstrated Interest" plays in to it. I.e you have your safety schools but don't visit them and the college gets the vibe that you are only applying to them as a safety. We going to do a campus tour with nearly every school my eldest is applying to, so from the various colleges sites, that's one of the biggest predictors of "DI".

RCH

rch2330 said:

Anyone else find that Naviance wasn't a good predictor of acceptance? It's our primary tool to really get a feel if the school is safety/fit/reach.

I am wondering if what Shoshannah said about "Demonstrated Interest" plays in to it. I.e you have your safety schools but don't visit them and the college gets the vibe that you are only applying to them as a safety. We going to do a campus tour with nearly every school my eldest is applying to, so from the various colleges sites, that's one of the biggest predictors of "DI".

RCH

Naviance: Looking at this over our son's shoulder, I'll see he's in the middle of a big green cluster and remark that that one looks like a safety school. Then he'll point out a number of X's well within that same cluster. Seems to me it's like polling: It may be the best tool we have for predicting, but the margin of error is still significant.

Demonstrated interest: This varies by school, I think. One school that recently visited CHS specifically said it did not track who showed up, and at least one campus tour we took (a flagship state university) didn't even ask for signups, so it has no way to know who visited. On the other hand, we've been advised of schools that definitely do want to see interest.

Naviance is a good tool if you use it for what it is, data about students from CHS that applied in the last few years. It was a good indicator for both my kids, but I think each year college admission gets more competitive. Since it only looks at GPA & test scores, it doesn't take into account what major you are applying to and many other factors. Choice of major can be a big factor in acceptances to certain schools. I would just use it as a broad guideline.

I would try and visit any of the colleges your child applies to if you can. I hear more and more about kids getting wait-listed to schools they thought were low matches or safeties because they didn't visit.

I would definitely try and apply early. Some schools have early action, rolling admission, or priority deadlines and will only look at those applications received by those dates for merit scholarships, honors programs, etc. Each college website will give that info and will tell you by what date you will get your decision.

rch2330 said:

One item that was missing(not in the power point presentation) is that if your child attends a NJ state school, NJ has it's own financial aid form: http://www.hesaa.org/ .

RCH

It's not financial aid. It's a loan program. Please read this before you take out one of those NJ loans. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/04/nyregion/in-new-jersey-student-loan-program-even-death-may-not-bring-a-reprieve.html?_r=0

rch2330 said:

Anyone else find that Naviance wasn't a good predictor of acceptance? It's our primary tool to really get a feel if the school is safety/fit/reach.

I am wondering if what Shoshannah said about "Demonstrated Interest" plays in to it. I.e you have your safety schools but don't visit them and the college gets the vibe that you are only applying to them as a safety. We going to do a campus tour with nearly every school my eldest is applying to, so from the various colleges sites, that's one of the biggest predictors of "DI".

RCH

Naviance is just one tool. You have to ignore the outliers. I think the best general predictor is the colleges' own data about the scores of the top quartile, mid 50%, and lower quartile. You have very little to no chance of getting into a school where your scores are in the lower quartile. Those are the recruited athletes and other special candidates.

As far as demonstrated interest, it can vary. If your child is interested in small liberal arts schools that are often considered safeties for students gunning for Ivy Leagues and other top schools, then yes, demonstrated interest is going to be VERY important—especially if the student is not applying early decision. A school like Colgate is one example. In this year's freshman class, 48% were admitted early decision. So if you are not an ED applicant, you darn well better show interest. The point is, they want to admit people who are likely to enroll.

Also, if there is an "optional" essay, do it. It's not optional if you want to be admitted to that school. Here's a real-life example from two Tulane applicants. Student A: well-above-average SAT scores for Tulane, 4.0, all APs and honors, and outright rejected from Tulane. Student B: a solid B student, no honors, average test scores for Tulane—and he was admitted. My best guess as to why: Student A did not do the "optional" essay and submitted the application 24 hours before the deadline. Student B did the optional essay and sent his application in October. The admissions committee likely thought that student A was applying there as a safety and didn't even put any effort into the app, and student B would probably be thrilled to be admitted and attend.

I have two in college now, and last year as I was going through it all the second time with my senior (well, third time actually because my eldest transferred after her first year) a friend recommended I listen to Andy Lockwood for some info. He gives free webinars regarding applications and financial awards (need as well as merit based). A lot of it is common sense, but I found it helpful. Some of it is stuff I actually did with my eldest before realizing it's actually "a thing," such as filing a financial award appeal letter.

I used Naviance a lot with my second kid and found it a decent gauge, but not perfect. The only school she didn't get accepted to off the bat was a school she showed zero demonstrated interest, which was a safety that since then has offered admission as well as some merit awards.

Neither of my kids applied to any NJ state schools. Yes, they are a bargain relatively speaking, but we found the two PA state schools "we" applied to matched (or gave significantly more) merit awards that would have brought the cost down to equal or less than Rutgers.

We also used awards given by some schools as leverage to get additional financial awards from other schools. It doesn't always work, but for us it did at several schools, and not an insignificant amount of money either.

Another thing that might be helpful that I don't see written—seriously network. If you know anyone who knows anyone who works at or is an alumnus of the school your child is interested in attending, follow through with that connection. It could do nothing, or you can mention it to an admissions advisor one day and out of the blue receive a letter with an additional financial award a few days later.

And I could be wrong because finances are definitely not my thing, but from what I understand (through an Andy Lockwood webinar) a 529 in the kid's name counts against them similar to the way income would.

Just to clarify what I said about Naviance--it was really more our myopic reliance on it than anything else. After the fact, I realized that--as other posters have said--Naviance doesn't tell you everything. Not all kids report rejections to their counselors. Admissions are based on much more than a chart of GPA and SAT/ACT score. If you are a well-rounded kid with strong scores, but 15 other people from CHS are also applying to the same school, your likelihood of getting in plummets in a given year and a target becomes a reach. So,my advice is to not rely too heavily on it (as we did) in setting categories.

shh said:

And I could be wrong because finances are definitely not my thing, but from what I understand (through an Andy Lockwood webinar) a 529 in the kid's name counts against them similar to the way income would.

It's an asset, not income. The idea that money in a 529 works "against" you is misguided thinking. If you have money in a 529 that's a GOOD thing. 1. You get tax benefits. 2. It's calculated at the parental asset rate of 5.64% instead of the child asset rate of 20%. That's why people save in 529s. Here's a nice article that explains it well.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-feldman-idUSBRE93S0LZ20130429

Here is a more thorough explanation: http://www.finaid.org/savings/accountownership.phtml

what is the bare minimum one can do when it comes to filling this out? Nephew will likely wind up in community college in Sept. Some aid would be great (family take home income probably around $50-60k total with 3 kids). But okay too if it just gives him the ability to take out a small loan. Weak student profile (moderate grades, poor SAT).

I have to get it all ready for his father to complete. The father will fill out whatever I ask him to but it'll need to be very clearly spelled out. Is it all electronic or can I literally print and have him fill in any gaps?

He may be eligible for the Fafsa Simplified Needs Test, which is for low income students. Google it. Sounds like he could be eligible for a Pell grant, which would almost completely pay for community college.

His parents are divorced, and that will complicate things. He will need information from both parents. If the custodial parent is remarried, the step-parent's income counts. Log on to Fafsa.ed.gov to start familiarizing yourself with it.

oh, it is wayyyyy more complicated than this. His father is his bio father. Bio mother surrender sole full custody/terminated parental rights to him at birth. My sister never formally adopted him so legally he has one parent. Bio parent has had no contact since birth and she is reported still on drugs, in and out of jail and homelessness.

I assume, under this circumstance, no info is needed from anyone other than his father?

(I'll add that the person who raised him (my sister) had an income of $0 last year and every year of his life so if she were the 2nd parent it wouldn't affect it anyway)

and father will be getting remarried but has moved wedding date to July 2017 so I assume we don't have to even go there yet for this first years application?

His first school year will be 2017-2018

and, one more. I don't think it'll matter because, from what I hear, future stepmom has no income or job, no assets but how is it fair that a stepparent's income affects a kid's aid? If kid doesn't live thee and essentially doesn't even know the person? Seems super unfair.

conandrob240 said:

oh, it is wayyyyy more complicated than this. His father is his bio father. Bio mother surrender sole full custody/terminated parental rights to him at birth. My sister never formally adopted him so legally he has one parent. Bio parent has had no contact since birth and she is reported still on drugs, in and out of jail and homelessness.

I assume, under this circumstance, no info is needed from anyone other than his father?

(I'll add that the person who raised him (my sister) had an income of $0 last year and every year of his life so if she were the 2nd parent it wouldn't affect it anyway)

OK, a few things. Only the custodial parent has to supply Fafsa info. In your nephew's case, his father is the custodial parent, even though he doesn't live with him and regardless of whether or not he has legal custody. Under the Fafsa definition, he is the custodial parent. (Not relevant to your situation, but for others who may be reading this: For schools requiring the CSS Profile, financial info is needed for custodial, non-custodial, and step-parents.) Read this for more information: http://www.finaid.org/questions/divorce.phtml

conandrob240 said:

and father will be getting remarried but has moved wedding date to July 2017 so I assume we don't have to even go there yet for this first years application?

His first school year will be 2017-2018

You will be filling out the Fafsa with information from his 2015 tax return. Presumably, it is already filed. However, if the father lived with his fiancé during tax year 2015, the soon-to-be step-parent can be counted in the household size, I believe, even though your nephew doesn't actually live with them. Again look at the link I provided.

conandrob240 said:

and, one more. I don't think it'll matter because, from what I hear, future stepmom has no income or job, no assets but how is it fair that a stepparent's income affects a kid's aid? If kid doesn't live thee and essentially doesn't even know the person? Seems super unfair.

Actually, I made a mistake. The step-parent is not needed for Fafsa, only for the CSS Profile, which will not be relevant to your nephew. The reason the CSS Profile wants it is because the step-parent's income and assets contribute to the overall financial picture of the student's parent.

Fafsa for the 2017-18 school year will be available on Oct 1.

the father does not officially live with fiancée right now. He has his own apartment. Yes, he filed 2015 taxes.

Good on step parent thing at least for now. It still seems unfair. A 17 1/2 yr old kid who all of a sudden gets a stepparent he barely knows- he'd have to suffer if that random stranger had a good income? I guess now I'm thankful it seems the stepparent is just another loser with no job. It at least has one positive aspect. SMH

Any idea on the bio parent thing? Since all parental rights surrenders at birth, I assume she isn't a factor at all?

conandrob240 said:

the father does not officially live with fiancée right now. He has his own apartment. Yes, he filed 2015 taxes.

Good on step parent thing at least for now. It still seems unfair. A 17 1/2 yr old kid who all of a sudden gets a stepparent he barely knows- he'd have to suffer if that random stranger had a good income? I guess now I'm thankful it seems the stepparent is just another loser with no job. It at least has one positive aspect. SMH

Any idea on the bio parent thing? Since all parental rights surrenders at birth, I assume she isn't a factor at all?

The step parent would not be a factor in your nephew's situation because he only has to fill out Fafsa. It is only relevant for colleges that in addition to Fafsa require the CSS Profile, which are the most competitive schools in the country, not community colleges.

As I said above, only the custodial parent has to fill out the Fafsa. His father is the custodial parent by Fafsa's definition. Also, read the link I provided. It will answer all your questions. Here it is again: http://www.finaid.org/questions/divorce.phtml

Don't forget, he may be eligible for the Fafsa Simplified Needs Test instead of the regular Fafsa. Look it up. I

I understand and it's good he won't have to be involved in the stepparent thing. I was stating in general how it seems unfair.

I have to check the AGI for the fathers 2015 taxes. It seems $50k is the magic #.

And, thank you!

conandrob240 said:

I understand and it's good he won't have to be involved in the stepparent thing. I was stating in general how it seems unfair.

I have to check the AGI for the fathers 2015 taxes. It seems $50k is the magic #.

And, thank you!

You can use the IRS Data Retrieval Tool. It automatically fills most of the Fafsa fields. You'll have to sit down with the father and do it together.

http://www.finaid.org/fafsa/irsdataretrievaltool.phtml

Look at this for more info on eligibility to use the Fafsa Simplified Needs Test, which he may be able to use. http://www.finaid.org/educators/needs.phtml

shoshannah said:

shh said:

And I could be wrong because finances are definitely not my thing, but from what I understand (through an Andy Lockwood webinar) a 529 in the kid's name counts against them similar to the way income would.

It's an asset, not income. The idea that money in a 529 works "against" you is misguided thinking. If you have money in a 529 that's a GOOD thing. 1. You get tax benefits. 2. It's calculated at the parental asset rate of 5.64% instead of the child asset rate of 20%. That's why people save in 529s. Here's a nice article that explains it well.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-feldman-idUSBRE93S0LZ20130429


Here is a more thorough explanation: http://www.finaid.org/savings/accountownership.phtml

Thank you, you're right, I meant asset, not income. I'll have to revisit why he said it could work against the kids. (Not that it made much of a difference to us either way, we continue to save in 529s for two of our kids.)

okay. The "sitting down with" part isn't going to happen. For him, paper would be easier but if I go in and set up the account and very clearly tell him what to do, he'll do it.