Dealing with undocumented workers - we need a strong labor movement

If our country was highly unionized down to the level of golf course workers and restaurant workers, we could count on unions to manage the employment and exploitation of undocumented workers.  Republicans certainly don't want strong labor now that they have more or less strangled unions.  Not sure about Democrates.


I think most Democrats are pro union in name only these days.  The Republicans have won the battle of painting all union workers as lazy and greedy.  I have been in a non public union for 30 years, and I look around and see people in our towns happily crossing picket lines to buy groceries for $2 less.  I completely agree with you about how important unions are and can be, but if you asked people here to pay $20 more per week to their landscaper so that their workers could be unionized and maybe have safety glasses and gloves provided by the company they would find a new landscaper who uses illegals that they can abuse.  Then they would come back here and fill pages in support of some democratic presidential candidate.


FilmCarp said:
I think most Democrats are pro union in name only these days.  The Republicans have won the battle of painting all union workers as lazy and greedy.  I have been in a non public union for 30 years, and I look around and see people in our towns happily crossing picket lines to buy groceries for $2 less.  I completely agree with you about how important unions are and can be, but if you asked people here to pay $20 more per week to their landscaper so that their workers could be unionized and maybe have safety glasses and gloves provided by the company they would find a new landscaper who uses illegals that they can abuse.  Then they would come back here and fill pages in support of some democratic presidential candidate.

I have come to understand that the importance of a labor movement is to offset the power of the oligarchy and this overrides anything I might not like about unions - particularly private sector unions. 

Public sector unions are more complicated since the government, unlike private companies, really can't go out of business.  However,  I think people have noticed recently that the recent teachers' strikes are not about greed - they are about giving teachers the means to do their jobs.


Yes, but when there is a half day here for professional development people post that they should do that during the summer on their own time.


FilmCarp said:
Yes, but when there is a half day here for professional development people post that they should do that during the summer on their own time.

 I wouldn’t do that, but I don’t think it’s outrageous to make the point that teachers are paid a salary for 10 months of work which is comparable to many private sector 12 month salaries (here in NJ).   This salary furthermore includes 2-3 weeks of vacation.


I don’t think the teachers union is the right focus for this discussion.   I happen to believe theirs is the example many people would cite when expressing animosity towards unions in general.  


A stronger labor movement would make it harder to underpay undocumented workers, and would make it harder to skirt OSHA and other regulations. This would greatly reduce the economic incentives to hire undocumented workers. Combine this with a more flexible policy on border crossings, so that people already here would feel more secure returning to their home countries as the demand for their labor declined (as opposed to now, where one you've crossed into the US, there's a strong disincentive to risk having to cross the border again, so people don't risk going back to their home countries), and you'd have a dramatic decrease in undocumented workers.

Of course, this assumes that immigration restrictionists are actually concerned about issues like labor. While some are, folks like Trump and Stephen Miller are clearly motivated by racial animus, so these economic considerations are beside the point for them. Still, Trump, Miller, and their fellow travelers aside, strengthening labor and rationalizing our immigration policies would be beneficial for the country as a whole, and for those who cross the border in search of work.


Red_Barchetta said:I don’t think the teachers union is the right focus for this discussion.   I happen to believe theirs is the example many people would cite when expressing animosity towards unions in general.  

I’ll start finding complaints about the excesses of teachers unions more convincing, I think, when college grads start flocking to the cushy jobs and compensation.


DaveSchmidt said:


Red_Barchetta said:I don’t think the teachers union is the right focus for this discussion.   I happen to believe theirs is the example many people would cite when expressing animosity towards unions in general.  
I’ll start finding complaints about the excesses of teachers unions more convincing, I think, when college grads start flocking to the cushy jobs and compensation.

 Im not an enemy of teachers.  Your point is really off base.  You’re an informed guy, surely you know what’s gone on in our state.  Here’s one shining example of educators putting our children first:


http://nj1015.com/nj-teachers-union-leaders-resign-njea-to-face-lawmakers-over-videos/


Seems pretty convincing to me.


Red_Barchetta said:

Seems pretty convincing to me.

My point was only a personal opinion. You’re welcome to yours, too.


Red_Barchetta said:


DaveSchmidt said:


Red_Barchetta said:I don’t think the teachers union is the right focus for this discussion.   I happen to believe theirs is the example many people would cite when expressing animosity towards unions in general.  
I’ll start finding complaints about the excesses of teachers unions more convincing, I think, when college grads start flocking to the cushy jobs and compensation.
 Im not an enemy of teachers.  Your point is really off base.  You’re an informed guy, surely you know what’s gone on in our state.  Here’s one shining example of educators putting our children first:


http://nj1015.com/nj-teachers-union-leaders-resign-njea-to-face-lawmakers-over-videos/



Seems pretty convincing to me.

Not that convincing when the source is Project Veritas.  The word "veritas" should be used ironically in their case.  They are well known for editing videos to tell false stories.

The hearings were requested by Senate President Steve Sweeney, a Democrat, after a conservative activist group Project Veritas released videos of union presidents in Hamilton and Union City describing how they defend teachers accused of wrongdoing — sometimes by unscrupulous means.

bereft of what documents makes one “un”documented?


Setting aside that the actions of two locals should not result in the tarring and feathering of all teachers (and their locals and the NJEA) throughout the state.


Robert_Casotto said:
bereft of what documents makes one “un”documented?

 Valid Visa


ml1 said:


Red_Barchetta said:

DaveSchmidt said:


Red_Barchetta said:I don’t think the teachers union is the right focus for this discussion.   I happen to believe theirs is the example many people would cite when expressing animosity towards unions in general.  
I’ll start finding complaints about the excesses of teachers unions more convincing, I think, when college grads start flocking to the cushy jobs and compensation.
 Im not an enemy of teachers.  Your point is really off base.  You’re an informed guy, surely you know what’s gone on in our state.  Here’s one shining example of educators putting our children first:


http://nj1015.com/nj-teachers-union-leaders-resign-njea-to-face-lawmakers-over-videos/



Seems pretty convincing to me.
Not that convincing when the source is Project Veritas.  The word "veritas" should be used ironically in their case.  They are well known for editing videos to tell false stories.


The hearings were requested by Senate President Steve Sweeney, a Democrat, after a conservative activist group Project Veritas released videos of union presidents in Hamilton and Union City describing how they defend teachers accused of wrongdoing — sometimes by unscrupulous means.

 I knew someone would make that argument but I didn’t think it would be you.   Maybe you should go back thru my posts; I may have made a typo or two you could also share with the group.  


sorry. They aren't a credible source. There must be some other source to prove your point. 


So those people resigned for no reason?  


We both know I could list plenty of other examples of NJ teacher’s unions improper behavior.  I’ll save us both the time.  


ACORN went under for no good reason after a Veritas report. Seriously, if the NJEA is that corrupt you should be able to find one other source. 



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