Essex county

The Counties are not in charge of the Court System. However in most Counties the Courts are housed in a building owned by the County. I am not sure what the financial arrangement is.

STANV said:
The Counties are not in charge of the Court System. However in most Counties the Courts are housed in a building owned by the County. I am not sure what the financial arrangement is.

 If this is true (not doubting you) and we get rid of county government, I assume that county property will just devolve to the state in some way.  There won't be an expense.  I think its clear that the counties do not do anything of the big things we care about - police, fire, education etc.  Right now, I can only think of the Reservation and county roads as things that I care about.  

In other parts of the state county Sheriff's provide local law enforcement.  Here they just transport prisoners.  The county correction system I think could be better handled by the state, and I think it might be watched more closely for abuse if it was.

mikescott said:
Rob,  The Abbott decision was poorly thought out and absolutely needs to be revisited.  It is insane that Jersey City is still getting so much of that money.  

Mike, the original Abbott decision has been revisited several times by the NJ Supreme Court, which is why I refer to it as the "Abbott Decisions".  It's not only Jersey City, but Hoboken, Long Branch, Asbury Park, and even East Orange and Newark, where gentrification has been hidden under PILOTs which remove the most valuable new developments from the tax rolls, so they don't factor into the state aid formulas. 

FilmCarp said:
In other parts of the state county Sheriff's provide local law enforcement.  Here they just transport prisoners.  The county correction system I think could be better handled by the state, and I think it might be watched more closely for abuse if it was.

 If I’m not mistaken towns that do not have local police get NJSP coverage, not county 

spontaneous said:
 If I’m not mistaken towns that do not have local police get NJSP coverage, not county 

 I am probably wrong, then.  One more reason to get rid of sherrifs departments.

I wonder how much of the Sheriff's office responsibility could be rolled up to the NJSP. The personnel could stay on but thin the ranks by attrition as people retire (or otherwise move on). Look for redundancies and opportunities for consolidation but only apply them over time.

You probably wouldn't save much right away but after a few years you might start reaping the benefits. 

I'm not a big fan of cutting people loose, which is why I favor the attrition approach (maybe offer an occasional early retirement incentive). Plus you'd face less opposition from the affected groups if you make it clear you're not looking to fire 30% of the workforce the day of the merger.

Speaking of the Essex County Sheriff, he is also double-dipping for the same job. Read this article and keep in mind it was written in 2012 and he's still the sheriff collecting a salary and a pension.

https://townhall.com/watchdog/newjersey/2012/10/15/retired-essex-sheriff-games-1m-from-state-pension-n2126

TRENTON — Without actually retiring, Essex County Sheriff Armando Fontoura has pocketed more than a million dollars in retirement pay at the expense of New Jersey’s pension system.

It’s a double whammy for taxpayers and state pension funds. Fontoura rakes in $200,305 a year. He receives $62,388 in pension as a retired Essex undersheriff, while he collects his $137,917 salary as Essex sheriff.

The sheriff has been double-dipping for 22 years. If he is re-elected next month, Fontoura’s pension jackpot payouts would hit $1.38 million by the time his term expires at the end of 2015.

“Does it look bad? Yes,” responded Fontoura. “No question about it, it looks bad. Was it legal? Yes.”

yahooyahoo said:
Speaking of the Essex County Sheriff, he is also double-dipping for the same job. Read this article and keep in mind it was written in 2012 and he's still the sheriff collecting a salary and a pension.
https://townhall.com/watchdog/newjersey/2012/10/15/retired-essex-sheriff-games-1m-from-state-pension-n2126

TRENTON — Without actually retiring, Essex County Sheriff Armando Fontoura has pocketed more than a million dollars in retirement pay at the expense of New Jersey’s pension system.
It’s a double whammy for taxpayers and state pension funds. Fontoura rakes in $200,305 a year. He receives $62,388 in pension as a retired Essex undersheriff, while he collects his $137,917 salary as Essex sheriff.
The sheriff has been double-dipping for 22 years. If he is re-elected next month, Fontoura’s pension jackpot payouts would hit $1.38 million by the time his term expires at the end of 2015.
“Does it look bad? Yes,” responded Fontoura. “No question about it, it looks bad. Was it legal? Yes.”

 And yet we continue to re-elect these aholes. 

No one pays attention at the county level.  Also, I'm a Democrat who will vote against these folks given a choice, but these days my choice would have to be a Republican, and I simply can't support Trump in any way.  Give me any other choice.

FilmCarp said:
No one pays attention at the county level.  Also, I'm a Democrat who will vote against these folks given a choice, but these days my choice would have to be a Republican, and I simply can't support Trump in any way.  Give me any other choice.

 Not that I'm suggesting support for any particular potential candidate or that I'm voting against the Newark guys (as odious as they are to me) the next time around but is voting for a 'Pub at the County level really helping Trump?  There are no big issues at the County level except for the waste of our money.

bub said:
 Not that I'm suggesting support for any particular potential candidate or that I'm voting against the Newark guys (as odious as they are to me) the next time around but is voting for a 'Pub at the County level really helping Trump?  There are no big issues at the County level except for the waste of our money.

 Well, first I think it would let Republicans claim victory, which "must" mean support for Trump.  Second, it gives name recognition and support to the local Republican party.  Until they vocally renounce Trump they are supporting him.

FilmCarp said:

bub said:
 Not that I'm suggesting support for any particular potential candidate or that I'm voting against the Newark guys (as odious as they are to me) the next time around but is voting for a 'Pub at the County level really helping Trump?  There are no big issues at the County level except for the waste of our money.

 Well, first I think it would let Republicans claim victory, which "must" mean support for Trump.  Second, it gives name recognition and support to the local Republican party.  Until they vocally renounce Trump they are supporting him.

 When any party/clique comes to "own" control of a local government, corruption, inefficiency, back- scratching, nepotism fester.  That's what we have and deserve if we're complacent about it.  Cyclically throwing parties out of power is one of the checks and balances we have at our disposal.  I doubt Trump is going to blow his horn about having taken over a county.

FilmCarp said:
No one pays attention at the county level.  Also, I'm a Democrat who will vote against these folks given a choice, but these days my choice would have to be a Republican, and I simply can't support Trump in any way.  Give me any other choice.

Unfortunately the Democratic Party machine in Essex County is extremely powerful and they would never let anyone within the party make a legitimate run against DiVincenzo or Fontoura.  It's going to be a Republican, or a Democrat trying to get elected without using party resources which is almost impossible in this county.

bub said:
 When any party/clique comes to "own" control of a local government, corruption, inefficiency, back- scratching, nepotism fester.  That's what we have and deserve if we're complacent about it.  Cyclically throwing parties out of power is one of the checks and balances we have at our disposal.  I doubt Trump is going to blow his horn about having taken over a county.

 I don't. He would Tweet about it and claim it as a personal victory. Especially after Fox runs a big story about it.

If the local Republicans are not Trumpites they should forma new Party. In fact all Non-Trump republicans ought to quit and start a new Party. Conservative and Labour Members of Parliament have quit their Parties over Brexit and the formation of  the Republican Party resulted from the demise of the Whigs.

So you care more about fleeting bragging rights than about years of a corrupt, stagnant, quite possibly unnecessary level of government that is living off of your tax dollars?  

That's not what I said.  I'd love to eliminate counties or at least reduce redundancies.  We ought to be able to do it somehow without giving Republicans a foothold to use to purge voter roles in Newark, eliminate gay rights, destroy environmental protections, and otherwise screw things up 

There are counties in this state that lean Republican.  Have any of those things happened there?  Those big subjects get addressed on the state (and national) level.  The narrowness and shallowness of county governance is one of the reasons why we should get rid of it.   

Yes, screw things up the Republican way since we're currently screwed the Democrat way.  Lose/lose situation.

Republicans are perfectly happy with Trump. They are happy to overlook his ignoring of the resurgent white nationalist movement in exchange for the lower taxes and conservative judges he's delivered.  There will be no credible opposition to him. There will be no breakaway party, because Republicans are getting what they want from him.  

Some years ago the voters of Essex County, disgusted by the corruption of the Democratic Party including a County Executive (D'Alessio ?)who went to prison, decided to elect a Republican as County Executive. His name was Jim Treffinger and even many Dems supported him as a reaction against the corruption of the Dem Machine. Mr. Treffinger was elected and soon thereafter joined his Democratic predecessor in the clink.

Wasn’t Treffinger the one who wanted to close down the zoo and get rid of all the animals there?

Could increasing efficiency be addressed with ballot questions?

One of the big reasons Christie got elected was the disillusionment with ineffective terms from Corzine and McGreevey.  

sprout said:
Could increasing efficiency be addressed with ballot questions?

 I suppose it could be but we New Jerseyans seem to be weirdly fatalistic or in denial about the state of government here.  You would think, with the level of taxation here, that excessive redundant government would be a big issue in elections but it never seems to be.  

bub said:

sprout said:
Could increasing efficiency be addressed with ballot questions?

 I suppose it could be but we New Jerseyans seem to be weirdly fatalistic or in denial about the state of government here.  You would think, with the level of taxation here, that excessive redundant government would be a big issue in elections but it never seems to be.  

I don't see much motivation to run for a position where one's platform is to eliminate that position.

With 260,275 registered Democrats vs 50,263 registered Republicans in Essex County, a Republican is not going to be elected. That's a 5 to 1 ratio.  

There are 193,000 unafilliated registered voters. 

cramer said:
With 260,275 registered Democrats vs 50,263 registered Republicans in Essex County, a Republican is not going to be elected. That's a 5 to 1 ratio.  
There are 193,000 unafilliated registered voters. 

 So it's Joe D. and his old school political machine ilk forever.  Are we OK with that?

bub said:

cramer said:
With 260,275 registered Democrats vs 50,263 registered Republicans in Essex County, a Republican is not going to be elected. That's a 5 to 1 ratio.  
There are 193,000 unafilliated registered voters. 

 So it's Joe D. and his old school political machine ilk forever.  Are we OK with that?

 No.

yahooyahoo said:

bub said:
 So it's Joe D. and his old school political machine ilk forever.  Are we OK with that?

 No.

 So, what are other options?

(and how do ballot questions work?)