Even after the seat belt light goes out, I always keep my belt on whenever I fly, because when $hit happens it usually seems to come from nowhere.  I do not know if the poor woman who lost her life on this flight would have been saved; she was nearly sucked out of the plane when shrapnel broke the window glass at her seat.

thedailybeast.com:  Masterclass:  How Veteran Fighter Pilot Tammy Jo Shults Saved Crippled Southwest Flight 1380 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...

Just how masterfully Tammy Jo Shults, the pilot of the badly crippled Southwest Airlines Flight 1380, handled the problem of an engine exploding at 30,000 feet is winning admiration from thousands of her fellow pilots—and should finally help to temper the hubris of what has been a notoriously testosterone-charged profession.

vanityfair.com:  The Disturbing Truth about how Airplanes are Maintained Today

In the last decade, most of the big U.S. airlines have shifted major maintenance work to places like El Salvador, Mexico, and China, where few mechanics are F.A.A. certified and inspections have no teeth.

https://www.vanityfair.com/new...

Over the past decade, nearly all large U.S. airlines have shifted heavy maintenance work on their airplanes to repair shops thousands of miles away, in developing countries, where the mechanics who take the planes apart (completely) and put them back together (or almost) may not even be able to read or speak English. US Airways and Southwest fly planes to a maintenance facility in El Salvador. Delta sends planes to Mexico. United uses a shop in China. American still does much of its most intensive maintenance in-house in the U.S., but that is likely to change in the aftermath of the company’s merger with US Airways.

DottyParker said:
Even after the seat belt light goes out, I always keep my belt on whenever I fly, because when $hit happens it usually seems to come from nowhere.  I do not know if the poor woman who lost her life on this flight would have been saved; she was nearly sucked out of the plane when shrapnel broke the window glass at her seat.


thedailybeast.com:  Masterclass:  How Veteran Fighter Pilot Tammy Jo Shults Saved Crippled Southwest Flight 1380 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...

Just how masterfully Tammy Jo Shults, the pilot of the badly crippled Southwest Airlines Flight 1380, handled the problem of an engine exploding at 30,000 feet is winning admiration from thousands of her fellow pilots—and should finally help to temper the hubris of what has been a notoriously testosterone-charged profession.

 Not in any way to minimize the performance of the flight crew on this aircraft,  but all of these situations are extensively rehearsed and trained for in a simulator multiple times per year.    In particular, the reaction to an explosive decompression is (or should be) virtually automatic.    As a flight instructor, one of the things we emphasize in every situation like this is to follow procedures and "fly the plane" (Aviate/Navigate/Communicate).    

Unfortunately,  the coordination with Emergency Services on the ground actually left something to be desired in this case.  If you listen to the communications between PHL Tower,  their Fire/Rescue team, and the pilots,  several extra minutes elapsed between the time the aircraft came to a stop and when the first EMS team boarded the plane.    Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely it would have mattered if the reports about the injuries to the passenger who died are accurate. 

catch22, thank god they are highly trained and practice rigorously! My worry is that regulation has been tainted by people who feel no company can make too much money. I would think these highly skilled pilots want to keep it this way. After all, their lives are at stake too. I can't imagine how much these simulators cost, and how much pay is involved, to keep the pilots in tip top shape. 

catch22 said:
Unfortunately,  the coordination with Emergency Services on the ground actually left something to be desired in this case.  If you listen to the communications between PHL Tower,  their Fire/Rescue team, and the pilots,  several extra minutes elapsed between the time the aircraft came to a stop and when the first EMS team boarded the plane.    Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely it would have mattered if the reports about the injuries to the passenger who died are accurate. 

I heard that and wondered why she was asking for EMS to come on the plane, but the previous exchanges were fuzzy and incomprehensible (to me, anyway) so figured I must have missed something. 

catch22, since you're in the business -- What happened to the proposal to overhaul the U.S. air traffic control system? We heard a lot about it during the election, but nothing since. What are your thoughts? Is it needed? The current system seems to be working pretty well, if we look at safety records in recent years.

gerryl said:
catch22, thank god they are highly trained and practice rigorously! My worry is that regulation has been tainted by people who feel no company can make too much money. I would think these highly skilled pilots want to keep it this way. After all, their lives are at stake too. I can't imagine how much these simulators cost, and how much pay is involved, to keep the pilots in tip top shape.

Well,  the results speak for themselves.    This was the first fatality on a US airline in 10 years.   It's a remarkably safe way to travel.    https://www.forbes.com/sites/d...   

Meanwhile,  there were probably 50 people killed within a 10 mile radius of MAPSO in car accidents just in the last year alone, and nobody really notices.     We as humans are really bad at understanding and ranking risks...https://www.psychologytoday.co...

kthnry said:

catch22 said:
Unfortunately,  the coordination with Emergency Services on the ground actually left something to be desired in this case.  If you listen to the communications between PHL Tower,  their Fire/Rescue team, and the pilots,  several extra minutes elapsed between the time the aircraft came to a stop and when the first EMS team boarded the plane.    Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely it would have mattered if the reports about the injuries to the passenger who died are accurate. 

I heard that and wondered why she was asking for EMS to come on the plane, but the previous exchanges were fuzzy and incomprehensible (to me, anyway) so figured I must have missed something. 


catch22, since you're in the business -- What happened to the proposal to overhaul the U.S. air traffic control system? We heard a lot about it during the election, but nothing since. What are your thoughts? Is it needed? The current system seems to be working pretty well, if we look at safety records in recent years.

 Shouldn't EMS meeting the plane be an automatic response?

kthnry said:

catch22 said:
Unfortunately,  the coordination with Emergency Services on the ground actually left something to be desired in this case.  If you listen to the communications between PHL Tower,  their Fire/Rescue team, and the pilots,  several extra minutes elapsed between the time the aircraft came to a stop and when the first EMS team boarded the plane.    Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely it would have mattered if the reports about the injuries to the passenger who died are accurate. 

I heard that and wondered why she was asking for EMS to come on the plane, but the previous exchanges were fuzzy and incomprehensible (to me, anyway) so figured I must have missed something. 


catch22, since you're in the business -- What happened to the proposal to overhaul the U.S. air traffic control system? We heard a lot about it during the election, but nothing since. What are your thoughts? Is it needed? The current system seems to be working pretty well, if we look at safety records in recent years.

 There are several things in motion, including a major revamp of the technology used to track aircraft.   When ADSB comes fully online, we will have very detailed information about pretty much every airplane in the sky (some exceptions).     Like any large, government program, this one is filled with bloat and cost overruns, but it should allow for not only safer skies (reduced collision threat) but much more efficient routing (allowing for less separation and more direct routes).    https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/wh...   The small plane I fly already has a first generation ADSB system.   

yahooyahoo said:

kthnry said:

catch22 said:
Unfortunately,  the coordination with Emergency Services on the ground actually left something to be desired in this case.  If you listen to the communications between PHL Tower,  their Fire/Rescue team, and the pilots,  several extra minutes elapsed between the time the aircraft came to a stop and when the first EMS team boarded the plane.    Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely it would have mattered if the reports about the injuries to the passenger who died are accurate. 

I heard that and wondered why she was asking for EMS to come on the plane, but the previous exchanges were fuzzy and incomprehensible (to me, anyway) so figured I must have missed something. 


catch22, since you're in the business -- What happened to the proposal to overhaul the U.S. air traffic control system? We heard a lot about it during the election, but nothing since. What are your thoughts? Is it needed? The current system seems to be working pretty well, if we look at safety records in recent years.

 Shouldn't EMS meeting the plane be an automatic response?

 I was on a plane that took off from Newark and immediately returned due to an unspecified mechanical problem.  Our landing was met by a host of emergency vehicles.  They were there before we came to a stop.

yahooyahoo said:

kthnry said:

catch22 said:
Unfortunately,  the coordination with Emergency Services on the ground actually left something to be desired in this case.  If you listen to the communications between PHL Tower,  their Fire/Rescue team, and the pilots,  several extra minutes elapsed between the time the aircraft came to a stop and when the first EMS team boarded the plane.    Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely it would have mattered if the reports about the injuries to the passenger who died are accurate. 

I heard that and wondered why she was asking for EMS to come on the plane, but the previous exchanges were fuzzy and incomprehensible (to me, anyway) so figured I must have missed something. 


catch22, since you're in the business -- What happened to the proposal to overhaul the U.S. air traffic control system? We heard a lot about it during the election, but nothing since. What are your thoughts? Is it needed? The current system seems to be working pretty well, if we look at safety records in recent years.

 Shouldn't EMS meeting the plane be an automatic response?

 If you listen to the full playback of the event,  you'll notice a couple of things.  First, the flight crew themselves didn't have the full picture right away.  They were up front watching all the alarms go off and executing the emergency procedures based on various checklists.  Whatever info they were getting was coming from the cabin crew, and it was obviously very chaotic.    Secondly,  the Captain and FO did indicate injuries to one or more controllers.   But, they were handed off at least two (maybe three?) times between en-route, approach, and PHL tower.   That's the radio frequency changes you hear in the recordings.  From listening, it sounds like the Fire/Rescue team on the ground was never alerted that there were serious injuries on board.  Also, they were on yet another frequency, so there was some confusion there.   They were initially just focused on the engine/fuel leak and fire suppression.   I think it was 5 or 6 minutes before they realized that there were injuries and that they needed to get the portable air-stair to the aircraft.   

ml1 said:

yahooyahoo said:

kthnry said:

catch22 said:
Unfortunately,  the coordination with Emergency Services on the ground actually left something to be desired in this case.  If you listen to the communications between PHL Tower,  their Fire/Rescue team, and the pilots,  several extra minutes elapsed between the time the aircraft came to a stop and when the first EMS team boarded the plane.    Unfortunately, it's pretty unlikely it would have mattered if the reports about the injuries to the passenger who died are accurate. 

I heard that and wondered why she was asking for EMS to come on the plane, but the previous exchanges were fuzzy and incomprehensible (to me, anyway) so figured I must have missed something. 


catch22, since you're in the business -- What happened to the proposal to overhaul the U.S. air traffic control system? We heard a lot about it during the election, but nothing since. What are your thoughts? Is it needed? The current system seems to be working pretty well, if we look at safety records in recent years.

 Shouldn't EMS meeting the plane be an automatic response?

 I was on a plane that took off from Newark and immediately returned due to an unspecified mechanical problem.  Our landing was met by a host of emergency vehicles.  They were there before we came to a stop.

 Same at PHL yesterday.  They were rolling on the runway/taxiway as the Southwest aircraft touched down and were on station before the plane came to a stop.    But, they were focused on the outside and didn't get into the cabin for several minutes since it wasn't obvious (initially) that there were injuries.   

DottyParker said:...

Over the past decade, nearly all large U.S. airlines have shifted heavy maintenance work on their airplanes to repair shops thousands of miles away, in developing countries, where the mechanics who take the planes apart (completely) and put them back together (or almost) may not even be able to read or speak English. US Airways and Southwest fly planes to a maintenance facility in El Salvador. Delta sends planes to Mexico. United uses a shop in China. American still does much of its most intensive maintenance in-house in the U.S., but that is likely to change in the aftermath of the company’s merger with US Airways.

 Are you suggesting that manufacturers don't publish service manuals in languages other than English? Or do you suggest that people who do not read or speak English, are not competent to service sophisticated machines?

Your post has me scratching my head.

TomR

P.s., A very well done to Pilot Shults.