I suppose I should withhold comment until the story ages for a bit

sprout

Feb 23, 2019 at 11:57am

mrincredible said:
If it could bring some attention to the issue of sex trafficking and how pervasive it is it would be helpful. But I doubt the media will focus on anything but the spaciousness and the spectacle of a big public figure being humiliated.

FWIW:

Robert Kraft’s Arrest Is About Way More Than Just Him. The real story is the story of vulnerable women.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/robert-kraft-arrest-sex-trafficking_n_5c706340e4b00eed08341f4a

An excerpt:

The federal definition of sex trafficking is essentially soliciting, transporting or harboring someone being forced or coerced into sex acts. Sex trafficking is often also used interchangeably with human trafficking, mostly because sex trafficking has become a favored morality crusade among the evangelical right. In reality, sex-trafficked people are a fraction of the overall population of victims. Hotels, garment factories, farms, construction sites, and restaurants are all places where human trafficking is happening at greater amounts.

Sex workers often engage in consensual sex work out of survival, which is an entirely different scenario but one often conflated with sex trafficking ― with detrimental effects.

DaveSchmidt

Feb 23, 2019 at 12:06pm

Also within the first day:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/23/robert-kraft-florida-spa-case-sex-trafficking-common-across-us/2953812002/

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-robert-kraft-sex-trafficking-ring-worked-police-2019-2

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/22/robert-kraft-charged-soliticating-prostitution-human-trafficking?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=sinow&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&__twitter_impression=true

annielou

Feb 23, 2019 at 12:30pm

Will the NFL punish him the way they did Kap? We shall see.

GL2

Feb 23, 2019 at 12:46pm

The guy's a billionaire and he patronizes a "spa" in a strip mall to buy sex? How many incredibly "talented" high-priced escorts in legal states/countries can he afford? Legions.

mrincredible

Feb 23, 2019 at 3:44pm

GL2 said:
The guy's a billionaire and he patronizes a "spa" in a strip mall to buy sex? How many incredibly "talented" high-priced escorts in legal states/countries can he afford? Legions.

He might have thought he'd run less chance of being recognized going to the strip mall.

ml1

Feb 23, 2019 at 4:07pm

mrincredible said:

GL2 said:
The guy's a billionaire and he patronizes a "spa" in a strip mall to buy sex? How many incredibly "talented" high-priced escorts in legal states/countries can he afford? Legions.
He might have thought he'd run less chance of being recognized going to the strip mall.

he must have forgotten that 100 million people saw him on TV a couple of weeks ago.

mrincredible

Feb 23, 2019 at 4:27pm

ml1 said:

mrincredible said:

GL2 said:
The guy's a billionaire and he patronizes a "spa" in a strip mall to buy sex? How many incredibly "talented" high-priced escorts in legal states/countries can he afford? Legions.
He might have thought he'd run less chance of being recognized going to the strip mall.
he must have forgotten that 100 million people saw him on TV a couple of weeks ago.

What is the likelihood the women working at this spa are among them?

LOST

Feb 23, 2019 at 5:01pm

A number of you seem to favor the Elliot Spitzer model.

GL2

Feb 23, 2019 at 5:41pm Edited

LOST said:
A number of you seem to favor the Elliot Spitzer model.

We also have NV and Canada for legit services.

ml1

Feb 23, 2019 at 5:43pm

mrincredible said:

ml1 said:

mrincredible said:

GL2 said:
The guy's a billionaire and he patronizes a "spa" in a strip mall to buy sex? How many incredibly "talented" high-priced escorts in legal states/countries can he afford? Legions.
He might have thought he'd run less chance of being recognized going to the strip mall.
he must have forgotten that 100 million people saw him on TV a couple of weeks ago.
What is the likelihood the women working at this spa are among them?

I was thinking of other people seeing him entering or leaving

mrincredible

Feb 23, 2019 at 6:18pm

I'm thinking a hat and sunglasses and he's just another 70 year old Florida man that most people wouldn't take note of.

Unless he got out of a limo in a $2500 suit? I haven't read that much about the particulars. Although it seems a number of other pretty well-heeled men were caught up in this.

I don't want to open up a whole discussion about decriminalization of sex work. But here's my point, LOST. Kraft allegedly solicited a sexual act in exchange for money, and despite his mind-boggling wealth chose to do so at an establishment which in all likelihood was exploiting women and coercing them into prostitution. So he made one choice to break the law and pay for sex, but he made another to use someone who was being exploited.

I know I'm in a weird moral area here.

Sweetsnuggles

Feb 24, 2019 at 9:16pm

mrincredible said:

GL2 said:
The guy's a billionaire and he patronizes a "spa" in a strip mall to buy sex? How many incredibly "talented" high-priced escorts in legal states/countries can he afford? Legions.
He might have thought he'd run less chance of being recognized going to the strip mall.

You’re missing the point. The sleaziness of the setting is part of the appeal.

tjohn

Feb 25, 2019 at 7:53am

mrincredible said:
So he made one choice to break the law and pay for sex, but he made another to use someone who was being exploited.
I know I'm in a weird moral area here.

Not really. If all sex workers had the choice of doing what they are doing versus putting up with some 9-5 job for the same pay, then I would be pro-choice meaning that if somebody wants to hire a prostitute, then I wouldn't even want to hear about it.

annielou

Feb 25, 2019 at 8:31am

tjohn said:

mrincredible said:
So he made one choice to break the law and pay for sex, but he made another to use someone who was being exploited.
I know I'm in a weird moral area here.
Not really. If all sex workers had the choice of doing what they are doing versus putting up with some 9-5 job for the same pay, then I would be pro-choice meaning that if somebody wants to hire a prostitute, then I wouldn't even want to hear about it.

Except that there is a power imbalance within in the act itself, and a prerequisite set of psychic damages affecting both parties. Sorry. I think it’s yucky.

tjohn

Feb 25, 2019 at 8:53am Edited

annielou said:

tjohn said:

mrincredible said:
So he made one choice to break the law and pay for sex, but he made another to use someone who was being exploited.
I know I'm in a weird moral area here.
Not really. If all sex workers had the choice of doing what they are doing versus putting up with some 9-5 job for the same pay, then I would be pro-choice meaning that if somebody wants to hire a prostitute, then I wouldn't even want to hear about it.
Except that there is a power imbalance within in the act itself, and a prerequisite set of psychic damages affecting both parties. Sorry. I think it’s yucky.

It's legal and regulated in a lot of places including a number of European nations many of which seem to have a healthier view of sex than the United States. To me, the key question is whether or not the sex workers are in the business by choice or by some sort of coercion including economic coercion. Pretty clearly, I think, the majority of sex workers are under coercion.

And then there is the question of whether or not legal/regulated is better than attempts to outlaw the business. Outlawing the sex business has been about as effective as the war on drugs.

Robert_Casotto

Feb 25, 2019 at 9:52am

Househusband’s Rules for Living #14. Never solicit sex. Not even from your wife.

drummerboy

Feb 26, 2019 at 1:35am

Good piece on issue

tjohn

Feb 26, 2019 at 7:30am

I do expect the NFL to hold Kraft to the same standard to which they would hold a 2nd string player.

jersey_boy

Feb 26, 2019 at 6:17pm

I just saw an article calling the sting a sham trafficking sting. . . No-one has been charged with any trafficking charges. . . 77 yo widower just got a rub and tug. . .Tabloid media using salacious story for clicks. . . Leave Kraft alone. Go patriots!

On CNN! Well, some of that was in the comment section.

yahooyahoo

Mar 15, 2019 at 2:05am Edited

I'm sure it's all just a big coincidence. Imagine that, the founder of the spa (no longer the owner) is selling access to high level politicians including Trump. She has even partied with Trump at Mar-a-Lago.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/asian-spa-founder-selling-access-trump-806182/

According to Yang’s GY US Investments website, which was taken down the same day a Miami Herald story about her selfies with Trump broke, Yang promised clients “the opportunity to interact with the president, the [American] Minister of Commerce and other political figures.” The site also claimed Yang could arrange “taking photos with the President” and could orchestrate a “White House and Capitol Hill Dinner.” Yang’s website also claimed her company “arranged a number of guests to attend the 2019 New Year’s Eve dinner,” adding, “all the guests took photos with” Trump family members. President Trump himself ended up cancelling his New Year’s trip to Mar-a-Lago because of the shutdown, otherwise he likely would have been there—and could have potentially taken photos with Yang clients—as well.