Julian Assange Being Turned over to UK????

nan said:
Ok, but if you go to the wikileaks site and click on that, the files that come up say "Russia"  Some of them are stuff like "EC Butter Sales to Russia" so I'm not sure what I'm looking at.  

So you're saying that WikiLeaks had Russian "butter emails"?


South_Mountaineer said:


nan said:
Ok, but if you go to the wikileaks site and click on that, the files that come up say "Russia"  Some of them are stuff like "EC Butter Sales to Russia" so I'm not sure what I'm looking at.  
So you're saying that WikiLeaks had Russian "butter emails"?

 Not everything from Wikileaks is as exciting as the DNC emails.

From 1979 - spoiler alert - they went down from the previous year.

EC BUTTER SALES TO RUSSIA

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979BRUSSE17198_e.html


I don't get it - are you trying to find dirt on Russia on Wikileaks?


South_Mountaineer said:


nan said:
Ok, but if you go to the wikileaks site and click on that, the files that come up say "Russia"  Some of them are stuff like "EC Butter Sales to Russia" so I'm not sure what I'm looking at.  
So you're saying that WikiLeaks had Russian "butter emails"?

 I applaud you, SM.


jamie said:
I don't get it - are you trying to find dirt on Russia on Wikileaks?

 Pinger claims there are 800k emails FROM Russia on Wikileaks. So far I’ve found a lot about Russia, and some in Russian, but nothing from Russia. I await nan’s inquiry results. I’m not suggesting they’re not there, just that I’ve never heard of Russian documents being exposed before, so I went to find them and couldn’t.


nan said:


South_Mountaineer said:

nan said:
Ok, but if you go to the wikileaks site and click on that, the files that come up say "Russia"  Some of them are stuff like "EC Butter Sales to Russia" so I'm not sure what I'm looking at.  
So you're saying that WikiLeaks had Russian "butter emails"?
 Not everything from Wikileaks is as exciting as the DNC emails.
From 1979 - spoiler alert - they went down from the previous year.
EC BUTTER SALES TO RUSSIA

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979BRUSSE17198_e.html

 https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Buttery%20Males


Eureka!

More applause, SM.


nan said:
I'm looking into it.  It might be related to this from 2010:
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1026/WikiLeaks-ready-to-drop-a-bombshell-on-Russia.-But-will-Russians-get-to-read-about-it

or this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/09/19/wikileaks-releases-files-that-appear-to-offer-details-of-russian-surveillance-system/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.76e277e18cda


I'm searching on Google for Wikileaks + Russian dump and terms like that. 

 In researching something else, I've found out that Wikileaks never released this. They gave either some or all of the files to Russian newspaper owned by Mikhail Gorbachev and Alexander Lebedev,Novaya Gazeta. I can't find anything other than various versions of that Bloomberg report from the same time period, but it's possible that rather than just dump the information, they followed up on it and turned it into investigative news stories like this one. I did find on my travels a report somewhere that Assange was disappointed that Novaya Gazeta didn't release everything or published less hard-hitting stories, or something. I forgot to save the reference, but if I come upon it again, I'll link it to this thread.


ridski said:


nan said:
I'm looking into it.  It might be related to this from 2010:
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1026/WikiLeaks-ready-to-drop-a-bombshell-on-Russia.-But-will-Russians-get-to-read-about-it

or this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/09/19/wikileaks-releases-files-that-appear-to-offer-details-of-russian-surveillance-system/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.76e277e18cda


I'm searching on Google for Wikileaks + Russian dump and terms like that. 
 In researching something else, I've found out that Wikileaks never released this. They gave either some or all of the files to Russian newspaper owned by Mikhail Gorbachev and Alexander Lebedev,Novaya Gazeta. I can't find anything other than various versions of that Bloomberg report from the same time period, but it's possible that rather than just dump the information, they followed up on it and turned it into investigative news stories like this one. I did find on my travels a report somewhere that Assange was disappointed that Novaya Gazeta didn't release everything or published less hard-hitting stories, or something. I forgot to save the reference, but if I come upon it again, I'll link it to this thread.

 Ok, I found an explanation of the Russian wikileaks files and it's not the un-dumped Russian files cited above.  It's basically all the Russian files dumped from the beginning and dispersed in the various categories.  Here is how it is described by Julian Assange in 2016, interviewed by John Pilger, the guy who cites the 800,000 files. 

THE SECRETS OF THE US ELECTION: JULIAN ASSANGE TALKS TO JOHN PILGER

http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secrets-of-the-us-election-julian-assange-talks-to-john-pilger

John Pilger:

There is the accusation that WikiLeaks is in league with the Russians. Some people say, 'Well, why doesn't WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?'

Julian Assange:

We have published about 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and a great many books have come out of our publications about Russia, most of which are critical. Our [Russia]documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of court cases: refugee cases of people fleeing some kind of claimed political persecution in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.


nan said:

THE SECRETS OF THE US ELECTION: JULIAN ASSANGE TALKS TO JOHN PILGER

http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secrets-of-the-us-election-julian-assange-talks-to-john-pilger

John Pilger:
There is the accusation that WikiLeaks is in league with the Russians. Some people say, 'Well, why doesn't WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?'
Julian Assange:
We have published about 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and a great many books have come out of our publications about Russia, most of which are critical. Our [Russia]documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of court cases: refugee cases of people fleeing some kind of claimed political persecution in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.

Sounds like Trump describing something, with vague claims designed to deceive.

Julian probably just dumped any and everything out ("Butter", seriously?) that he had (or had been given) from Russia, so he could claim "Look! I did it to both sides!"


South_Mountaineer said:


nan said:THE SECRETS OF THE US ELECTION: JULIAN ASSANGE TALKS TO JOHN PILGER

http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secrets-of-the-us-election-julian-assange-talks-to-john-pilger

John Pilger:
There is the accusation that WikiLeaks is in league with the Russians. Some people say, 'Well, why doesn't WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?'
Julian Assange:
We have published about 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and a great many books have come out of our publications about Russia, most of which are critical. Our [Russia]documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of court cases: refugee cases of people fleeing some kind of claimed political persecution in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.
Sounds like Trump describing something, with vague claims designed to deceive.
Julian probably just dumped any and everything out ("Butter", seriously?) that he had (or had been given) from Russia, so he could claim "Look! I did it to both sides!"

 He was answering a question. 


nan said:


South_Mountaineer said:

nan said:THE SECRETS OF THE US ELECTION: JULIAN ASSANGE TALKS TO JOHN PILGER

http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secrets-of-the-us-election-julian-assange-talks-to-john-pilger

John Pilger:
There is the accusation that WikiLeaks is in league with the Russians. Some people say, 'Well, why doesn't WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?'
Julian Assange:
We have published about 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and a great many books have come out of our publications about Russia, most of which are critical. Our [Russia]documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of court cases: refugee cases of people fleeing some kind of claimed political persecution in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.
Sounds like Trump describing something, with vague claims designed to deceive.
Julian probably just dumped any and everything out ("Butter", seriously?) that he had (or had been given) from Russia, so he could claim "Look! I did it to both sides!"
 He was answering a question. 

 You're avoiding my main point about the 800,000 documents.  Both these guys probably know that's a smokescreen. 


South_Mountaineer said:


nan said:

South_Mountaineer said:

nan said:THE SECRETS OF THE US ELECTION: JULIAN ASSANGE TALKS TO JOHN PILGER

http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secrets-of-the-us-election-julian-assange-talks-to-john-pilger

John Pilger:
There is the accusation that WikiLeaks is in league with the Russians. Some people say, 'Well, why doesn't WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?'
Julian Assange:
We have published about 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and a great many books have come out of our publications about Russia, most of which are critical. Our [Russia]documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of court cases: refugee cases of people fleeing some kind of claimed political persecution in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.
Sounds like Trump describing something, with vague claims designed to deceive.
Julian probably just dumped any and everything out ("Butter", seriously?) that he had (or had been given) from Russia, so he could claim "Look! I did it to both sides!"
 He was answering a question. 
 You're avoiding my main point about the 800,000 documents.  Both these guys probably know that's a smokescreen. 

Smokescreen for what?  John Pilger is well respected journalist.  He investigates things, not covers them up.  


If Pilger is respected (and perhaps he used to be), why didn't he put Assange on the spot to be more specific?  Because that's what journalists are supposed to do rather than act like a transcriber of answers to softball questions?


“Relating to Russia” is nothing like “from Russia”. WikiLeaks dumped a ton of Sarah Palin emails once, some of them may have had the word “Russia” in them, but they weren’t from there, they from Sarah Palin.


ridski said:
“Relating to Russia” is nothing like “from Russia”. WikiLeaks dumped a ton of Sarah Palin emails once, some of them may have had the word “Russia” in them, but they weren’t from there, they from Sarah Palin.

 He also talked about how the emails were used in practical terms. 


nan said:


South_Mountaineer said:

nan said:

South_Mountaineer said:

nan said:THE SECRETS OF THE US ELECTION: JULIAN ASSANGE TALKS TO JOHN PILGER

http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secrets-of-the-us-election-julian-assange-talks-to-john-pilger

John Pilger:
There is the accusation that WikiLeaks is in league with the Russians. Some people say, 'Well, why doesn't WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?'
Julian Assange:
We have published about 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and a great many books have come out of our publications about Russia, most of which are critical. Our [Russia]documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of court cases: refugee cases of people fleeing some kind of claimed political persecution in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.
Sounds like Trump describing something, with vague claims designed to deceive.
Julian probably just dumped any and everything out ("Butter", seriously?) that he had (or had been given) from Russia, so he could claim "Look! I did it to both sides!"
 He was answering a question. 
 You're avoiding my main point about the 800,000 documents.  Both these guys probably know that's a smokescreen. 
Smokescreen for what?  John Pilger is well respected journalist.  He investigates things, not covers them up.  

 How much investigation did he do when he says Wikileaks published 800,000 secret files from Russia, including the Kremlin, and I can’t find reference to a single one?


Come on, MOL’s most prolific skeptical reader! You can do it, even when the source is respectable and saying something you like hearing.

ETA: Thanks for the follow-ups, ridski.


dave said:
If Pilger is respected (and perhaps he used to be), why didn't he put Assange on the spot to be more specific?  Because that's what journalists are supposed to do rather than act like a transcriber of answers to softball questions?

 Pilger is definitely respected. I remember watching his TV series after Weekend World on Sunday afternoons in the late 70s (yes, I was even into politics back then). I fear he may have strayed a little in recent years, holding certain people in higher regard than he should, but it's still good that he holds people's feet to the fire. I just wish he had some kind of note for where these 800k Russian files are.


ridski said:


nan said:

South_Mountaineer said:

nan said:

South_Mountaineer said:

nan said:THE SECRETS OF THE US ELECTION: JULIAN ASSANGE TALKS TO JOHN PILGER

http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-secrets-of-the-us-election-julian-assange-talks-to-john-pilger

John Pilger:
There is the accusation that WikiLeaks is in league with the Russians. Some people say, 'Well, why doesn't WikiLeaks investigate and publish emails on Russia?'
Julian Assange:
We have published about 800,000 documents of various kinds that relate to Russia. Most of those are critical; and a great many books have come out of our publications about Russia, most of which are critical. Our [Russia]documents have gone on to be used in quite a number of court cases: refugee cases of people fleeing some kind of claimed political persecution in Russia, which they use our documents to back up.
Sounds like Trump describing something, with vague claims designed to deceive.
Julian probably just dumped any and everything out ("Butter", seriously?) that he had (or had been given) from Russia, so he could claim "Look! I did it to both sides!"
 He was answering a question. 
 You're avoiding my main point about the 800,000 documents.  Both these guys probably know that's a smokescreen. 
Smokescreen for what?  John Pilger is well respected journalist.  He investigates things, not covers them up.  
 How much investigation did he do when he says Wikileaks published 800,000 secret files from Russia, including the Kremlin, and I can’t find reference to a single one?

 I don't think it's been clarified because it's a low priority given that Assange's life is threatened, and his supporters are more worried about his well-being than verifying some Russian files. On MOL, everything related to Russia is a huge deal and no respect for anyone not unrelenting in pursing that neoMcCarthy lane. Pilger, an Australian, thinks Russiagate is a bunch of bullsh**t so no surprise, he's not pushing for more details on what is just a part of the interview and focuses on the importance of Julian Assange.

Here is an interview with Pilger discussing Assange, from January of 2018, when Pilger's work was acquired by the British Library for posterity.

John Pilger on the Mainstream Media and Imperial Power

Noted journalist and filmmaker John Pilger’s collection of work has been archived by the British Library, but deep-rooted problems of Western media create an increasingly difficult landscape for ethical journalism, as Pilger explained in an interview with Dennis Bernstein and Randy Credico.

Dennis Bernstein:  Could you talk about the work of Julian Assange in the context of this corporate censorship machine?

John Pilger:  Julian Assange has personally borne the brunt of much of this historic shift.  He and Wikileaks have exposed so much, and that is unforgivable.  There is no doubt that what Wikileaks has done is the most important disclosure journalism of my lifetime.  Around the world, politicians who have been deceiving the public have been caught out by the revelations of Wikileaks.  It is quite an epic achievement.

Anger has been directed at Julian by people in the media who have been shamed by Wikileaks.  Because Wikileaks did the job that journalists ought to have been doing for many years.  Wikileaks has done it across such a spectrum and put to shame those who are paid to keep the record straight.  That has been Assange’s crime.

Dennis Bernstein: It has come to the point where to tell the truth is to commit professional suicide.

Randy Credico:  At the recent World Socialist Conference, Julian Assange warned of what he called the “super states” on the internet and how much power they have–the Facebooks and Googles, etc.

John Pilger: He raised the whole specter of artificial intelligence and how it can be abused by the undemocratic forces that control so much of the world.  I think what he had to say was very interesting and extremely timely.  It is important to remember that Assange is a refugee and that the refugee is almost a symbol of our times.  There are those who try to cross the Mediterranean and don’t make it or who cross deserts to get work to support their families.

Julian is a political refugee who is trying to inform us of something we either don’t know about or are unwilling to talk about.  The United Nations has recognized that he is being detained unlawfully.  It is interesting to hear what he says but we also have to keep an eye on his welfare.  His situation should be a burning issue for journalists everywhere.  If it can happen to him, it can happen to any of us.



Chelsea Manning Is Jailed for Refusing to Testify in WikiLeaks Case

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/us/politics/chelsea-manning-wikileaks-jail.html

WASHINGTON — Chelsea Manning, the former Army intelligence analyst who provided archives of secret military documents to WikiLeaks in 2010, was taken into custody on Friday after a federal judge found her in contempt for refusing to testify before a grand jury that is investigating the antisecrecy group.

Judge Claude H. Hilton of Federal District Court in the Eastern District of Virginia ruled that Ms. Manning must stay in civil detention until she testifies. Ms. Manning had vowed not to cooperate in the investigation even though prosecutors in the Eastern District of Virginia granted immunity for her testimony.

In a statement posted on Twitter after she was arrested, Ms. Manning said she had ethical objections to the secrecy of the grand-jury system and “will not comply” with the subpoena.



Daniel Ellsberg responds to the unjust jailing of whistleblower Chelsea Manning

Whistleblower Chelsea Manning has been sent to jail for refusing to comply with a subpoena to testify in front of a grand jury believed to be investigating Wikileaks’s publishing activities—a grave threat to freedom of the press.

The following quote can be attributed to famed Pentagon Papers whistleblower and Freedom of the Press Foundation co-founder Daniel Ellsberg:

“Chelsea Manning is again acting heroically in the name of press freedom, and it’s a travesty that she has been sent back to jail for refusing to testify to a grand jury. An investigation into WikiLeaks for publishing is a grave threat to all journalists’ rights, and Chelsea is doing us all a service for fighting it. She has already been tortured, spent years in jail, and has suffered more than enough. She should be released immediately.”

You can donate to Chelsea Manning's legal fund by going here



nan said:
Daniel Ellsberg responds to the unjust jailing of whistleblower Chelsea Manning
Whistleblower Chelsea Manning has been sent to jail for refusing to comply with a subpoena to testify in front of a grand jury believed to be investigating Wikileaks’s publishing activities—a grave threat to freedom of the press.
The following quote can be attributed to famed Pentagon Papers whistleblower and Freedom of the Press Foundation co-founder Daniel Ellsberg:
“Chelsea Manning is again acting heroically in the name of press freedom, and it’s a travesty that she has been sent back to jail for refusing to testify to a grand jury. An investigation into WikiLeaks for publishing is a grave threat to all journalists’ rights, and Chelsea is doing us all a service for fighting it. She has already been tortured, spent years in jail, and has suffered more than enough. She should be released immediately.”
You can donate to Chelsea Manning's legal fund by going here

 Thanks. No.


BREAKING: Assange ‘Will Be’ Arrested in ‘Hours to Days,’ WikiLeaks Says

WikiLeaks has quoted a “high-level” Ecuadorian government source as saying that Julian Assange could be imminently expelled from Ecuador’s London embassy and that Quito has an agreement with the UK to arrest him.



nan said:
BREAKING: Assange ‘Will Be’ Arrested in ‘Hours to Days,’ WikiLeaks Says
WikiLeaks has quoted a “high-level” Ecuadorian government source as saying that Julian Assange could be imminently expelled from Ecuador’s London embassy and that Quito has an agreement with the UK to arrest him.


 This is an outrage.


For what it's worth, Ecuador denies the report.

https://www.cancilleria.gob.ec/comunicado-9/. Google translation:

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Human Mobility categorically rejects the false news that has circulated these days in social networks, many of them disseminated by an organization linked to Mr. Julian Assange, about an imminent termination of diplomatic asylum granted to him from 2012. These "information" also distort reality by pointing out that Ecuador would have reached an agreement with the United Kingdom to imprison Mr. Assange when he leaves our Embassy in London.

The Ecuadorian Government observes that these falsehoods are, in addition, an attempt to defile the dignity of the country. Ecuador adopts its international decisions in exercise of its sovereignty and with total independence from other countries. Granting diplomatic asylum is a sovereign power of Ecuador, which therefore has the right to grant or terminate it when it deems it justified and without consulting third parties.

By issuing information that falsifies the truth, the asylee and his associates once again express ingratitude and disrespect towards Ecuador, instead of showing gratitude to the country that has welcomed him for almost seven years, which has made significant expenditures to pay for his stay in Ecuador. the Embassy, which has endured its rudeness and to which, paradoxically, he has prosecuted for adopting a protocol of coexistence to prevent their acts of misbehavior from happening again in the future.

The barrage of insults and false news may respond to the National Assembly of Ecuador, by resolution of March 28, 2019, requested the Minister of Foreign Affairs to seek to determine the participation of Mr. Julian Assange in the President's private information illicit publications of the Republic in social networks. To this effect, the Chancellor filed a complaint with the Special Rapporteur on the Right to Privacy of the UN, on April 2, and collected the declaration of the asylee through a questionnaire presented to him by the Embassy in London on March 4. .

The Ecuadorian State reiterates once again that it will apply to the case of Mr. Assange the relevant provisions of international law, especially the Inter-American conventions on diplomatic asylum of 1928 and 1954, the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and the Special Protocol of October 2018. According to that regulation, Mr. Assange has rights but also obligations to comply with and which respect will be required at all times: no person under the jurisdiction of Ecuador is above the Law.

So, as the statement says, it could just be "las noticias falsas" (that is, "fake news").


There are conflicting reports.  But, I heard an interview with one of his lawyers and she said they are worried and they are treating this like an emergency.  She was flying into London.  So, it's wait and see.


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