Julian Assange Being Turned over to UK????

Factotum said:
Nan: it seems impossible to argue with those in the throes of the Trump Derangement Syndrome. I can't get over the sudden respect that 'progressives' have for the FBI, CIA and NSF, given their proven history of deceit, manipulation and criminality. Assange isn't an angel, Wikileaks has performed a very useful function in lifting the veil.

 As a possible sufferer, can you tell me what the symptoms are for Trump Derangement Syndrome?

I wonder if my medical covers it.


nan said:

This is why you all need to shut your pie holes and support Julian Assange. 

Nan, you’re right. We can all learn from your efforts to encourage conversation.


Does releasing some information, while hiding other pieces of it, count as transparency? Or can the choice to selectively publish while purposely withholding other bits of information cross over from transparency to dishonesty? Further, given the vitally important role journalists play in uncovering information, isn't there an ethical obligation on journalists to consider where their actions fall along that line?

To me, Assange falls on the wrong side of the line. There may not yet be enough evidence in the public domain to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Assange, Roger Stone, and Russian intelligence collaborated to sway the election, but imo there's enough to withhold extending him the benefit of the doubt.


PVW said:

Does releasing some information, while hiding other pieces of it, count as transparency? Or can the choice to selectively publish while purposely withholding other bits of information cross over from transparency to dishonesty? Further, given the vitally important role journalists play in uncovering information, isn't there an ethical obligation on journalists to consider where their actions fall along that line?

Well put.


Factotum said:
Nan: it seems impossible to argue with those in the throes of the Trump Derangement Syndrome. I can't get over the sudden respect that 'progressives' have for the FBI, CIA and NSA, given their proven history of deceit, manipulation and criminality. Assange isn't an angel, Wikileaks has performed a very useful function in lifting the veil.

 Thanks, Factotum!  I don't get it either.  They are nuts about Russia possibly interfering in the election, but don't want to know about actual election interference by their own party.  Also, don't seem to care about freedom of the press, freedom of speech or US war crimes--just want to punish those that expose them and then scream that our Democracy is being compromised by Russia, as dictated by the people who committed the war crimes.  Derangement is right.


DaveSchmidt said:


PVW said:

Does releasing some information, while hiding other pieces of it, count as transparency? Or can the choice to selectively publish while purposely withholding other bits of information cross over from transparency to dishonesty? Further, given the vitally important role journalists play in uncovering information, isn't there an ethical obligation on journalists to consider where their actions fall along that line?
Well put.

 All of that was considered and a decision was made.  Might not be what you would do, but it's still journalism and publishing and the punishment of that will affect all journalists.  So be careful what you wish for.


DaveSchmidt said:


nan said:

This is why you all need to shut your pie holes and support Julian Assange. 
Nan, you’re right. We can all learn from your efforts to encourage conversation.

 i try to encourage conversations, but sometimes people are so dense they just need to be told point blank. I hope you got the message.  Some people on here are lacking a firm grasp of the obvious.


More commentary on Assange and as related to freedom of the press and speech.



nan said:


DaveSchmidt said:

nan said:

This is why you all need to shut your pie holes and support Julian Assange. 
Nan, you’re right. We can all learn from your efforts to encourage conversation.
 i try to encourage conversations, but sometimes people are so dense they just need to be told point blank. I hope you got the message.  Some people on here are lacking a firm grasp of the obvious.

 so - you just personally attack everyone who doesn't agree with you and your hero Julian?  wow - just wow.


nan said:


 i try to encourage conversations, but sometimes people are so dense they just need to be told point blank. I hope you got the message.  Some people on here are lacking a firm grasp of the obvious.

I’ve needed more knocks to the head in my life than I can count, but no, nan — neither you nor the video mallets you post are doing it for me. Back to my hovel I go.


nan said:
More commentary on Assange and as related to freedom of the press and speech.




 Why always post videos of Hillary haters?


jamie said:


nan said:

DaveSchmidt said:

nan said:

This is why you all need to shut your pie holes and support Julian Assange. 
Nan, you’re right. We can all learn from your efforts to encourage conversation.
 i try to encourage conversations, but sometimes people are so dense they just need to be told point blank. I hope you got the message.  Some people on here are lacking a firm grasp of the obvious.
 so - you just personally attack everyone who doesn't agree with you and your hero Julian?  wow - just wow.

 As I've said several times, it does not matter what you think about Julian Assange.  You can love him or hate him or somewhere in between.  However, you MUST support him because if he is prosecuted and convicted it will set a dangerous precedent for all journalists and the free press and freedom of speech.  This is where I am getting so frustrated and personally attacking everyone who does not agree with me.  Cause I'm right and it's a critical, perhaps life and death situation.


#metoounlessitsjulianassangebecausehehateshillary #thanksnan


sbenois said:
#metoounlessitsjulianassangebecausehehateshillary #thanksnan

 Kiss your freedom of speech/press goodbye.  


#horseshitandpsjimmydoreisanidiotnotajournalist


sbenois said:
#horseshitandpsjimmydoreisanidiotnotajournalist

 JImmy Dore is just one of many saying the same thing. 


nan said:


sbenois said:
#horseshitandpsjimmydoreisanidiotnotajournalist
 JImmy Dore is just one of many saying the same thing. 

 Please share the list.


jamie said:


nan said:

sbenois said:
#horseshitandpsjimmydoreisanidiotnotajournalist
 JImmy Dore is just one of many saying the same thing. 
 Please share the list.

 I've been posting them.  Here is a letter signed by multiple people:


In Defense of Julian Assange and Free Speech

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/in-defense-of-julian-assange-and-free-speech/



I'm all for leaking stuff from the government.

Not so much from non-governmental groups like the DNC (or the RNC for that matter). And definitely not so much when the leaks are directed towards affecting our elections. That's a whole 'nother thing. There was NOTHING revealed from the DNC leaks that was worth a damn - except for the fact that our MSM and the looney left (you know who you are) blew it way out of proportion, and undoubtedly affected votes.


drummerboy said:
I'm all for leaking stuff from the government.
Not so much from non-governmental groups like the DNC (or the RNC for that matter). And definitely not so much when the leaks are directed towards affecting our elections. That's a whole 'nother thing. There was NOTHING revealed from the DNC leaks that was worth a damn - except for the fact that our MSM and the looney left (you know who you are) blew it way out of proportion, and undoubtedly affected votes.

 The MSM tried to bury it and say there was nothing there.  There was lots of stuff there and it did not look good for the DNC.  I've already posted about it.  You don't seem to care about the Democrats fixing elections.  Only Russia seems to count. 


Nan - just curious - are you speaking out against Trump at all?  Or still campaigning for Bernie and bashing Hillary whenever possible?

The election has been over for quite awhile.  Do you have anything new to report that isn't Hillary related?

You - like Trump - LOVE wikileaks.  And yet, Assange will never release anything damaging on Russia, apparently it's because he values his life.

As I said before: To be a genuine issue organization globally, you have to be evenhanded. Assange never speaks ill of Putin, he never speaks ill of the Chinese. He has an agenda, which is not pure transparency.


Horses hit, and P.S., Jim, mydo re I sanidi otno tajo urn A-list?

[Knock to the head]

Klaatu barada nikto!


You might find the Australian perspective illuminating. 

We have the case of unjustly jailed journalist, Peter Greste, for comparison. We have a new law that deals harshly with whistleblowers especially those handling government and national security matters, including retrospectively (so even librarians and historians have real challenges, and Assange can’t come home for his parents’ funerals). Journalist Helen Razer recently wrote a piece looking at Wikileaks and Assange:

https://dailyreview.com.au/julian-assange-journalist-not-putins-*****/75738/

Read the comments - note the Swedish charges weren’t about rape, but ‘sex by surprise’. They were withdrawn quite quickly. 

Earlier in the year, journalist Henry Rosenbloom wrote an article on the Wikileaks release of Fire and Fury. I’m not a Crikey subscriber, so this link isn’t the full article - but subs are free, you can get access almost immediately. I know Henry, have know him since I was a young teen; you’ll find his writing interesting, and clear. He does his research, and he’s objective. His background is in community publishing. 

https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/01/15/why-truth-has-nothing-to-do-with-the-wikileaks-upload-of-fire-and-fury/


jamie said:
 To be a genuine issue organization globally, you have to be evenhanded. Assange never speaks ill of Putin, he never speaks ill of the Chinese. He has an agenda, which is not pure transparency.

 OK, this has nothing to do with this thread, but I must address this. 

Journalism does not have to be even handed. It has to be unbiased. Those two are not the same. 

It has to get at the truth. 


Agreed, shoshannah, or where there is bias that needs to be declared. 


jamie said:
Nan - just curious - are you speaking out against Trump at all?  Or still campaigning for Bernie and bashing Hillary whenever possible?
The election has been over for quite awhile.  Do you have anything new to report that isn't Hillary related?
You - like Trump - LOVE wikileaks.  And yet, Assange will never release anything damaging on Russia, apparently it's because he values his life.
As I said before: To be a genuine issue organization globally, you have to be evenhanded. Assange never speaks ill of Putin, he never speaks ill of the Chinese. He has an agenda, which is not pure transparency.

I do speak out about Trump, but there is less need for that and there are plenty of people 24/7.  There are few people talking about how Trump really got elected, and it was not Russia.  Read the book Shattered and you will see how it was a conscious decision by the DNC to emphasis Russia to cover up for the revelations of Wikileaks. Review the history of the CIA and FBI and NSA and you will find that they are not people who should be trusted without evidence (and indictments are not evidence).  As for Assange, as I have said over and over, even if you hate him, you must support him for the sake of press freedom and freedom of speech.  If he is convicted it will set a dangerous precedent for all journalists, including the ones that you support.  


joanne said:
You might find the Australian perspective illuminating. 
We have the case of unjustly jailed journalist, Peter Greste, for comparison. We have a new law that deals harshly with whistleblowers especially those handling government and national security matters, including retrospectively (so even librarians and historians have real challenges, and Assange can’t come home for his parents’ funerals). Journalist Helen Razer recently wrote a piece looking at Wikileaks and Assange:
https://dailyreview.com.au/julian-assange-journalist-not-putins-*****/75738/
Read the comments - note the Swedish charges weren’t about rape, but ‘sex by surprise’. They were withdrawn quite quickly. 

Earlier in the year, journalist Henry Rosenbloom wrote an article on the Wikileaks release of Fire and Fury. I’m not a Crikey subscriber, so this link isn’t the full article - but subs are free, you can get access almost immediately. I know Henry, have know him since I was a young teen; you’ll find his writing interesting, and clear. He does his research, and he’s objective. His background is in community publishing. 
https://www.crikey.com.au/2018/01/15/why-truth-has-nothing-to-do-with-the-wikileaks-upload-of-fire-and-fury/

 Joanne,

That first link has been all over the internet.  I was going to post it earlier.  Caitlin Johnston is the Australia writer I follow.  She has frequently written in support of Assange, and that's the only position anyone should take at this point.  Here is one of her latest:

Be Prepared To Shake The Earth If Julian Assange Is Arrested

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/be-prepared-to-shake-the-earth-if-julian-assange-is-arrested-e5a3c2560263

excerpt:  " . . . If we allow them to imprison Julian Assange for practicing journalism, that’s it. It’s over. We might as well all stop caring what happens to the world and sit on our hands while the oligarchs drive us to ecological disaster, nuclear annihilation or Orwellian dystopia. If we, the many, don’t have the spine to stand up against the few and say “No, we get to find out facts about you bastards and use it to inform our worldview, you don’t get to criminalize that,” then we certainly don’t have the spine it will take to wrest control of this world away from the hands of sociopathic plutocrats and take our fate into our own hands.

The arrest of Julian Assange would be the fork in the road. It would be where we collectively decide as a species whether we want to survive into the future, and if we deserve to. . . "


shoshannah said:


jamie said:
 To be a genuine issue organization globally, you have to be evenhanded. Assange never speaks ill of Putin, he never speaks ill of the Chinese. He has an agenda, which is not pure transparency.
 OK, this has nothing to do with this thread, but I must address this. 
Journalism does not have to be even handed. It has to be unbiased. Those two are not the same. 
It has to get at the truth. 

 Journalism does not have to be unbiased.  There is no such thing as unbiased journalism or unbiased anything.  The journalist on MSNBC/CNN/FOX make 30k a day and they represent the options of their corporate owners.  When they don't do that they get fired.  There is a long list of the fired.


There are many more wonderful and independent Aussie journos, worth checking out, speaking as a long-term professional and a Union member. Sadly there's insufficient opportunity for them to be heard. We all have to eat. 

I'm also really surprised you're so dismissive of Helen Razer, if you're so familiar with Aussie journalism and Crikey. Normally her views would fit what you often post, written with sharp humour, similar to Hannah Gadsby's.


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