Kids in village, minus masks.

mrincredible said:

Formerlyjerseyjack said:

 ‘cept if you’re The one parent whose kid brings it home

 I'm going to take this moment to point out that masks are more important for not spreading the virus. They're not as effective as protecting you from catching it.

It's best if everyone is wearing one.

 https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/11/933903848/wear-masks-to-protect-yourself-from-the-coronavirus-not-only-others-cdc-stresses

Recent science seems to indicate that mask earing protects the person wearing the mask in addition to people they come into contact with. Why wouldn't they offer some protection?


Yes I read the updated bulletin from a couple weeks ago when it was brought to my attention earlier in this thread. I responded as much.

My point is this: tell these kids they're wearing masks to protect other people, not just themselves.

In the article from NPR it says this:

The agency said masks were intended to block virus-laden particles that might be emitted by an infected person.

In a report updated Tuesday, the CDC says that is still the primary intention of wearing masks. But it also cites growing evidence that even cloth masks can also reduce the amount of infectious droplets inhaled by the wearer.

So the message should be reinforced that mask-wearing is primarily about protecting other people, and that wearing a mask reduces your risk but doesn't eliminate it. 

Teens sometimes think they're invulnerable so maybe they're willing to flout the mask rules. If they think they're also protecting other people maybe that will make a difference. Unless they're ****.


joan_crystal said:

So many people here are arguing that they don't need to wear a face covering over their nose and mouth when they are standing on the sidewalk in front of their house talking to their neighbor or a contractor; taking a walk around the block, walking for exercise (you don't need to wear a mask when you are exercising); walking the dog(s); giving their baby in the stroller some air; riding their bike or jogging (on the sidewalk); getting into/out of their car which is parked at the curb; eating/drinking while sitting on a bench adjacent to the sidewalk or while they are out for their walk; the list goes on.  Which of these do you think is a legitimate reason for not wearing a face covering in public?  What other reasons have you heard?

 If they are at a distance, which would be the case in many of the situations you mention, then I think it is optional.  That's certainly per the guidelines, other than in specific locales with stricter rules such as Maplewood Village.  But the reason for those stricter rules is generally because of the difficulty of maintaining sufficient distance.


I know an ADULT being irresponsible and not concerned that he will catch covid and pass it on to others, specifically me.  I have to spend time around him (mostly outdoors socially distance, but some inside normally at least 10 feet apart),   I went out and spent money I can't afford to waste on a clothe mask with a filter pocket to be better protected from him.  The masks I had been using weren't as thick.  One of the reasons I want the vaccine ASAP is because of others being rude and irresponsible...not wearing masks properly, putting themselves is situations were there is a significant risk...


They are also saying you need about 15 minutes of exposure to get sick.  So if you are walking around the block and pass someone that should not be a risk even without masks.  When I talk to neighbors, We stay at least 6 feet apart outside.  When I pass people, I try to give them 6 feet.  Sure germs do travel beyond 6 feet, but they are more concentrated close by.  And I keep a mask on me in case will be near someone for more than a few minutes (even 6 feet away).

My neighbor hassled me multiple times for being outside ALONE or with 1 close friend/neighbor (distanced) without a mask on (on residential property with no one else around and him and his family self imprisoned in their home).  While I am outside I am getting exercise-not standard exercise as I am disabled, but the light movement I do is equivalent to another person walking or running.  I also have issues with stiffness and balance.  The masks impair my range of vision (I am also blind in 1 eye) causing a significant fall risk.  A slight imperfection in the ground that most people wouldn't have a problem with can cause me to fall.  I need to fully see where I am putting my feet.  I also have a neuro issue where breathing in the hot air has caused my to get dizzy (its also happened sitting in front of a space heater without a mask).  I legit can't safely function outside with a mask on.  I do better inside, but have tripped a number of times on clutter inside stores where I always wear a mask. There have been times in store, I've had to stop and lift the bottom of the mask (away from others) to breathe in cooler air.


sac said:

 If they are at a distance, which would be the case in many of the situations you mention, then I think it is optional.  That's certainly per the guidelines, other than in specific locales with stricter rules such as Maplewood Village.  But the reason for those stricter rules is generally because of the difficulty of maintaining sufficient distance.

It may not always be possible to maintain social distancing safely in the circumstances mentioned in my above post. There are a number of streets in town with heavy vehicular traffic where crossing the street to avoid a person not wearing a face covering is not safe; streets with sidewalk on only one side of the street or no sidewalk at all where walking in the street is the only option if one wants to maintain social distancing.  Research has found that the 15 minutes of exposure can be cumulative.  Pass enough people on your walk and you have achieved 15 minutes of exposure.  Pass fewer and you are still at risk, though the risk may be substantially lower.  Exposure time is less when the people you encounter are running, biking, or talking loudly. Therefore, it would take fewer such encounters to reach the danger point.  We are so close now to having enough vaccine available for us to reach the projected threshold of 70%  of the population achieving immunity.  Can't we err on the side of caution just a little while longer?


you have to pass A LOT of people who are infected to get 15 minutes exposure.  NJ positivity rate is close to 10% of people tested.  That doesn't mean that 10% of people are actively infected, just 10% of those tested.  It is more likely that people who are symptomatic or have known exposures are getting tested while people with no symptoms and not likely to be exposed aren't.

But say 1 in 10 people are infected.  each person you pass walking by exposes you for a  total of 15 if you walk slow (10 seconds moderate, and 5 seconds fast walk)...think about how long it takes to walk approach and walking away 10 feet in each direction) seconds.  You would have to slowly pass 60 infected people out of 600 to be exposed for 15 minutes total.

I suspect that would be 15 minutes over the course of a limited time period, not 15 minutes over a matter of months...whether that is per day, per few days or a couple weeks, I don't think we know.

I would be shocked if I passed at least 600 people in a month, especially without masks.

there is a line between caution and dealing with living now.  on a typical neighborhood walk you won't be exposed--you don't have to cross the street, but can separate a few feet--maybe one person walk on the edge of the street and the other on the inside of the side walk, but if you are in the 'downtown' commercial area, you should be prepared to have a mask while walking on the sidewalk if its crowded.

very few people in my neighborhood wear a mask around the neighborhood and it hasn't been a problem.  we have people that park on the street, even half way down the block and walk to a home, walking their dogs past others, etc btw walking a dog or pushing a stroller is also exercise...even if not speed walking.  I used to walk a neighbors dog and referred to her as an assistance animal.  She motivated me to walk and helped me balance.  It looked like a casual walk, but was strenuous exercise for me.

and many people are wearing the same mask for days or even weeks without washing it or replacing it.....just read a story that said that the surgical masks only help for a few hours at best.  I have 4 clothe masks, a small supply of disposable that I use for activities with a significant risk like getting a hair cut.  I had 1 n95 from pre covid days that I used when I got my car inspected, made me feel very un easy with the MVC workers  who were in and out of a lot of cars every day, breathing in my car even with masks on.  I also kept the windows opened, pulled over and lysoled the car when i left....a lot of people would think that is ridiculous....but I went beyond what covid regs require without demanding others accommodate my concerns.


All I have to say is that if a mask is impeding your vision, you're doing it wrong.


BTW I'd add that as it gets colder, it's easier and even pleasant to wear the mask for warmth.  It was unpleasant in the hot weather.


My father is blind in one eye.  He hasn’t spoken of any issues with masks impeding his vision, though I haven’t specifically asked him.

If your mask is on properly it should not affect your vision.

But I also agree you should be allowed to be on your front lawn without a mask and not be hassled by neighbors.





drummerboy said:

All I have to say is that if a mask is impeding your vision, you're doing it wrong.

 all i have to say is you need to be grateful for your health and stop being so ignorant.  I've used the disposable surgical masks with the ear loops listed to make it more fitted, quality fabric mask, and bandana, I find them all distracting.  Maybe my nose sits higher on my face than yours.  I do find 'sleep masks' never sit right for me either.  Or maybe my face is too small for an adult mask....haven't tried a kids mask.  Masks are made to fit adult males good, not people with smaller faces.  I see fine straight in front of me, but now looking down toward my feet where I need to see.  I have motor skills issues.  I can't depend on looking a foot ahead of me and making my foot land in the right spot.  When there are hazards like un even side walks, I need to see it directly under my feet.  I have sensory issues from a brain injury, maybe that makes me more sensitive to have the edge of the mask in my line of vision...and without my glasses, my vision in my good eye isn't great.  I have glasses, but they are broken (1 arm broke off).  I can't afford new ones, so I leave them in the car and only wear them to drive.

I need to use my right eye to see to my left, even the light fabric sitting on the top of my nose is distracting


drummerboy said:

All I have to say is that if a mask is impeding your vision, you're doing it wrong.

Disagree.  No matter how much I try to contour the mask to my nose, my glasses invariably fog up if they are cold.

Thus, when working (carpentry, window repairs, etc.), I usually have to take the mask off, to be able to see what I am doing.


tomcat said:

drummerboy said:

All I have to say is that if a mask is impeding your vision, you're doing it wrong.

Disagree.  No matter how much I try to contour the mask to my nose, my glasses invariably fog up if they are cold.

Thus, when working (carpentry, window repairs, etc.), I usually have to take the mask off, to be able to see what I am doing.

meh. I wear glasses and manage to do fine. If you get a good seal on the nose, and put the glasses on top of the mask, you can usually avoid fogging. Not hard.


drummerboy said:

meh. I wear glasses and manage to do fine. If you get a good seal on the nose, and put the glasses on top of the mask, you can usually avoid fogging. Not hard.

 Next to impossible for me to prevent my glasses from fogging with a mask, of which I have multiple types with the metal band. I've even tried older pairs of glasses to see if that helps. It doesn't. If I bend over I fog up. 


Don't know what to say. The only time I fog up is on really hot days when I come out of A/C. Other than that, I'm good. Gotta get a good seal on the nose! Then I kinda push my glasses onto the mask, right where the seal is. Works every time.


Wet and/or cold weather makes it near impossible to see through my glasses when I am wearing both glasses and mask.  This morning it was so bad that I had to lower my glasses on my nose and look over the frames to see what was in front of me.  


All I have to say is that if you’re on social media and dismiss what others experience just because your experience is different, you’re doing it right.


In what way is the arm broken on your glasses?  If a screw fell off, there are very inexpensive repair kits with magnifying glass, mini screw driver, and screws that can be used to reattach the arm.  If you can't see to make the repair yourself or if your hands are not steady enough to do this yourself, a sighted person can do it for you.  If the arm snapped in two, duct tape can make a repair that should last, not pretty but it will get the job done. Again, someone can help you do this if you can't see well enough or if your hands are not steady enough to do it yourself.

jmitw said:

  I have glasses, but they are broken (1 arm broke off).  I can't afford new ones, so I leave them in the car and only wear them to drive.



joan_crystal said:

sac said:

 If they are at a distance, which would be the case in many of the situations you mention, then I think it is optional.  That's certainly per the guidelines, other than in specific locales with stricter rules such as Maplewood Village.  But the reason for those stricter rules is generally because of the difficulty of maintaining sufficient distance.

It may not always be possible to maintain social distancing safely in the circumstances mentioned in my above post. There are a number of streets in town with heavy vehicular traffic where crossing the street to avoid a person not wearing a face covering is not safe; streets with sidewalk on only one side of the street or no sidewalk at all where walking in the street is the only option if one wants to maintain social distancing.  Research has found that the 15 minutes of exposure can be cumulative.  Pass enough people on your walk and you have achieved 15 minutes of exposure.  Pass fewer and you are still at risk, though the risk may be substantially lower.  Exposure time is less when the people you encounter are running, biking, or talking loudly. Therefore, it would take fewer such encounters to reach the danger point.  We are so close now to having enough vaccine available for us to reach the projected threshold of 70%  of the population achieving immunity.  Can't we err on the side of caution just a little while longer?

 If that's the case, then they should definitely put on the mask.  But I am out quite a bit and there are plenty of times when I am nowhere near anyone else, even if I am chatting with someone who is standing in their yard.  I certainly have a mask with me at all times. As you mentioned and I certainly experience, mask plus glasses is tough so I don't keep it on every minute when there is nobody close to me outdoors.


DaveSchmidt said:

All I have to say is that if you’re on social media and dismiss what others experience just because your experience is different, you’re doing it right.

And all I have to say is that I doubt my situation is unique or that my facial structure gives me some kind of advantage.

It's a simple solution. Common sense - prevent breath from hitting glasses. duh.

The only variable is the mask. So get better masks that seal well. 

The failure to avoid fog is not mine. And don't whine about it as if it's your fate.

Do you think surgeons with glasses whine that their glasses fog up?


drummerboy said:

Don't know what to say. The only time I fog up is on really hot days when I come out of A/C. Other than that, I'm good. Gotta get a good seal on the nose! Then I kinda push my glasses onto the mask, right where the seal is. Works every time.

 I can get a good seal but then the glasses are pushed forward or up making the focal length wrong which impacts the correction.  It's a double-edged sword, unfortunately.  


drummerboy said:

Do you think surgeons with glasses whine that their glasses fog up?

I’d hazard an answer, except that when I say “all I have to say,” I mean it.


DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

Do you think surgeons with glasses whine that their glasses fog up?

I’d hazard an answer, except that when I say “all I have to say,” I mean it.

I guess we won't be seeing any more posts from you ever again, since you're apparently done.

OK


DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

Do you think surgeons with glasses whine that their glasses fog up?

I’d hazard an answer, except that when I say “all I have to say,” I mean it.

 It probably isn't as big an issue indoors.  And the disposable surgical masks are thinner than most cloth masks so I think it is easier to prevent fogging with placement of glasses, etc.  Also, I've seen "gadgets" advertised that imply that doctors have been using them for years.  But that's advertising, so who knows?


To be fair, I've been using N95 masks since day one. Maybe that makes a difference. Have only used the blue surgicals a few times.


fwiw to anyone, my husband reports success on the fogging by taping the top edge of the mask to his face.

I think a LOT depends on face structure and size/shape of glasses lens, in addition to temperature/temperature changes. 

Recommendation:  sympathize and/or suggest a fix (that may or may not work for the other person).

eta: yes, the N95s apparently (are supposed to) fit closer, good thing to try for fogging problems?  Though i think spouse tapes those too?


Drummerboy, does your mask have a vent?  Masks with vents let the moist air out faster/better, although they are not good for protecting others. 




DaveSchmidt said:

All I have to say is that if you’re on social media and dismiss what others experience just because your experience is different, you’re doing it right.

 16,000 people in New Jersey have died from this.  I don’t know how many children are being forced to attend school virtually.  People are out of work, either due to child care/school issues or due to businesses suffering.

And now numbers are increasing.

But you’re right, validate people who make excuses for why they can’t wear a mask.

And before you try to get snarky in your reply, my husband walked in the door at 8am telling me that every call he had last night was for Covid, and a couple of them were cardiac arrests.  He was exhausted so I didn’t press for details and I don’t know how many arrests, and I don’t know if they made it or not.  So my current mood so such that I don’t give a **** if I get banned, I will not hold back with how I really feel.


spontaneous said:

 16,000 people in New Jersey have died from this.  I don’t know how many children are being forced to attend school virtually.  People are out of work, either due to child care/school issues or due to businesses suffering.

And now numbers are increasing.

But you’re right, validate people who make excuses for why they can’t wear a mask.

And before you try to get snarky in your reply, my husband walked in the door at 8am telling me that every call he had last night was for Covid, and a couple of them were cardiac arrests.  He was exhausted so I didn’t press for details and I don’t know how many arrests, and I don’t know if they made it or not.  So my current mood so such that I don’t give a **** if I get banned, I will not hold back with how I really feel.

 Pretty sure you did not read Dave's comment in the spirit in which it was intended.


jimmurphy said:

spontaneous said:

 16,000 people in New Jersey have died from this.  I don’t know how many children are being forced to attend school virtually.  People are out of work, either due to child care/school issues or due to businesses suffering.

And now numbers are increasing.

But you’re right, validate people who make excuses for why they can’t wear a mask.

And before you try to get snarky in your reply, my husband walked in the door at 8am telling me that every call he had last night was for Covid, and a couple of them were cardiac arrests.  He was exhausted so I didn’t press for details and I don’t know how many arrests, and I don’t know if they made it or not.  So my current mood so such that I don’t give a **** if I get banned, I will not hold back with how I really feel.

 Pretty sure you did not read Dave's comment in the spirit in which it was intended.

 He’s criticizing people who dare to criticize those who are making excuses for not wearing a mask.

Here are some numbers for you.  On an average month pre-pandemic my husband would get 1-2 pronouncements a month.  In March he had 27 pronouncements in 12 days.  He had more pronouncements in less than two weeks than he normally has in a full year.  

But yeah, my glasses fogging up are a valid excuse to not wear a mask and endanger those who cannot work from home.  Like my husband, a paramedic.  My sister, a nurse in  a Newark hospital where she was temporarily reassigned to the Covid ward last spring.  My step mother‘s daughter who is a PA and works in urgent care and gets a steady stream of Covid patients.  My friend, a police officer who still has to respond to calls regardless of the risk.  They can all go scratch because wearing a mask is sooooo hard.

Kansas had county by county mask requirements.  Counties that had a requirement have fewer cases.  They inadvertently turned themselves into a study, and the results show that masks work.  Enough with the **** excuses.  And if your feelings are hurt because someone on the internet is calling you out on your **** then maybe you need to pull up your big kid panties and grow the **** up.


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