When Okay for Children Be Left Alone?

No. I wouldn't do it but I'm guessing parents are overwhelmed, don't have adequate supports, resources, perhaps are in some denial, and impacted by their own personal struggles. Regarding the question of should you confront them?...Ask yourself this; What is their repsonse likely to be? Do you think anything good will come out of confronting them? Will they become enlightened, seek additional support? Can you offer help? If it is more likely than not that they will becme angry, defensive, and cut you off,  then you might want to skip the confrontation.


the parent has plenty of support. She has a mother a few miles away ready and willing to watch the child almost anytime but she is mad at the mother lately. So some of this is “punishment”. She tells the children to lie about being alone so the grandmother isn’t even at the ready as back up. Her children also never want to be with her so part of this (I suspect) is some weird manipulation- “I’ll let you stay home all alone if you say you don’t want to go to Nana’s”


If you have to ask, the answer is probably No, Not Now, Don't Do It.


well, that is how a rational person might approach it. cheese 


Would I do this with a 12 and 9 year old?  Nope.  But: a) my wife chose to stay home with the kids to avoid such a scenario (amongst a host of other reasons), b) we had the luxury of being able to make such a decision, c) my kids thankfully don’t have any if the issues you describe, and d) we clearly have a WILDLY different parenting style than the one in question.  Would I say something were it a relative’s kids?  Damn right I would. 


She has the luxury of free childcare within 5 miles of her house literally anytime she wants so it’s a choice (likely for lots of wrong reasons)

Anyway, I confronted her this afternoon. I was screamed at, cursed at, threatened, brutally insulted. And told to f- off.

However, child was dropped off at her grandmothers at 6pm when parent headed to work so either she felt threatened or deep down she agreed with me. I don’t really care which one it was. The kid is safe and that’s all that matters. She ate a proper meal, is being monitored online and having some form of human interaction.


Sounds like so far, so good.  Whew for now.

fwiw my thought about this is that given the 12-year-old's apparent lack of attentiveness, and the relationship between the two kids, it sounds too much like in effect leaving the 9-year-old home alone.  And given his history, the hours, the frequency, that would be a No in my book.


conandrob240 said:
She has the luxury of free childcare within 5 miles of her house literally anytime she wants so it’s a choice (likely for lots of wrong reasons)
Anyway, I confronted her this afternoon. I was screamed at, cursed at, threatened, brutally insulted. And told to f- off.
However, child was dropped off at her grandmothers at 6pm when parent headed to work so either she felt threatened or deep down she agreed with me. I don’t really care which one it was. The kid is safe and that’s all that matters. She ate a proper meal, is being monitored online and having some form of human interaction.

 Sounds like it was a success! (And I'm not being sarcastic.)


Proud of you Conan!  I would have spoken to the mother just like you did and if that didn't work, I would have reported her.  We have a responsibility to protect our children from what can reasonably be considered a hazardous situation, which this one is.  We can't control the outcome, but we must speak up in the first place!  I'd never forgive myself if something tragic happened to a child that I knew was potentially at risk and I failed to at least sound the alarm.  Years ago I confronted and then reported a family member who babysat out of her home.  Child Services visited her, but nothing else.  That scared her enough to shut down her operation, though, and she hasn't babysat since.

FWIW, I was left alone at 6 in the 70s and it's because of that that I never left my children alone when they were 12 and certainly not younger.  I remember the fear and uncertainty and if I stranger knocked on my door I would've opened it no matter how many times my mom warned me against it.  As a poster previously said, they're just children and can't be expected to make mature, rational decisions.  Of course, my opinion is based on my personal experience and i'm not passing judgement on those who are confortable leaving their children alone.


thanks all.


I’m actually as concerned about the time even when her mother is there. Her mother (in an effort to get this kid to want to be home with her) is allowing this child to do absolutely nothing all day long. Literally stays in her pajamas all day day after day on her phone or iPad. I’m not exaggerating. The kid doesn’t want to go to Nanas because nana makes her get up, go do something, get some exercise, etc. this pattern of allowing this child to sit all day long with no teal human interaction is perhaps even more “red flag” neglect to me.


This whole thing is fairly “new”. She was with me for vacation for 10 days right when school ended then to CA with her dad so this has only been going on a few weeks. I’m closely watching to see how this progresses.


There are counseling services that are available for in-home therapy. However, based on your description of the situation it seems very unlikely that the parent would be receptive to you suggesting this. (Perform Care is the service through the NJ Childrens System of Care. I do not have the # handy but if you google it, it will be easy to locate.)


I would not leave those particular children home alone for any amount of time.


My kid babysat at 13, and is 7 years older than her brother, so she knew how to change diapers and take care of babies.  At about 12 we would leave her alone with the 5 year old, order them pizza and an on demand movie.  


We were always in town and never had an issue, unless you count the time there was a riot in SO and we couldn’t leave the restaurant and the rioters were dispersing down our street, which frightened the kids.  We just told them to go in our bedroom and lock the bedroom door.  


I'm glad you talked to your sister instead of the state. The state is a very blunt instrument, and it can make things worse or better, and you have no control over which it will be. It is possible to report things anonymously, but that's really less important.


my plan was not to go to the state, Tom. It wasn’t really even a consideration for this particular issue (has crossed my mind for more egregious issues in the past). And I would have always tried to talk to her first. 

The big problem right now is that my mother was always the watcher and the safe space. Since she’s been trying to shut out my mother, they are less supervised and that’s not good. 


Have you thought about getting the child's therapist involved? I guess  you risk the therapist "reporting" but IMHO this probably doesn't reach a threshold of danger, just sub-optimal. Would the mom listen to input from the therapist, ie it would be helpful for the child's mental health to spend more time with grandma (versus alone). As I understand it, you can tell the therapist anything you want, she/he would just would not be able to comment back to you about the client.

What a difficult situation LOL. The kids are truly fortunate to have you in their lives.


yes, I often send emails to the older child’s psychiatrist ahead of their monthly meetings. You are correct, she is not allowed to respond to me but when we spoke verbally once, she insinuated to keep doing what I was doing that it was helpful. So, yes, I will do just that in advance of their Sept meeting. 

The mother of these kids hates this psychiatrist and refuses to go to her anymore. This is likely because she’s actually a good doctor who tells it like it is and has told her a number of things she didn’t like about the situation. So my sister now hates her and won’t talk to her.  Their grandmother takes them, occasionally  joined by the father.



Question:  Is the supervision better when mom is home? 


It's whack-a-mole.  Solve this one, but another incident will arise.  The overall situation is larger than the sum of its parts.  A lot of stress on you and your parents.  


yeah, well that’s truly the issue. But at least an adult will keep the little one from burning down the house.


Last week, I get a FaceTime call. The two of them are in the yard where a tree had fallen two weeks ago. They were trying to figure out how to get the chainsaw on because they wanted to make a fort out of the wood. They wanted my help getting it started. They had woken up all alone and this is what they decided to do after they couldn’t find any food and had already walked a mile into town alone to buy a bagel to share with the few $ they found in the house. That’s the level of trouble these two can get into alone.


conandrob240 said:
yeah, well that’s truly the issue. But at least an adult will keep the little one from burning down the house.


Last week, I get a FaceTime call. The two of them are in the yard where a tree had fallen two weeks ago. They were trying to figure out how to get the chainsaw on because they wanted to make a fort out of the wood. They wanted my help getting it started. They had woken up all alone and this is what they decided to do after they couldn’t find any food and had already walked a mile into town alone to buy a bagel to share with the few $ they found in the house. That’s the level of trouble these two can get into alone.

 Hopefully they will be lucky and they will continue to reach out to you and other reliable adults for help. This sadly sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. It also sounds like  a situation that you are working very hard at trying to manage but that may not be manageable. I wish you (and them ) luck. (Do they reside close by to you?)


We used to take nyc city buses at 7 unaccompanied.  often multiple buses.  it’s no wonder many kids today are incapable of independent thought.


Robert_Casotto said:
We used to take nyc city buses at 7 unaccompanied.  often multiple buses.  it’s no wonder many kids today are incapable of independent thought.

 Therefore the need for safe spaces and trigger warnings. Infantilization.


Looks like the last two posters may not have bothered to read the original post?  This is a family in crisis where there is a clear risk of serious injury.  There is mental illness involved, serious neglect and one or more adults who have demonstrated repeatedly that they are unwilling/unable to comprehend anyone's needs but their own.  The comments above trivialize the conversation, imo, and are nothing more than self-serving contempt for folks whose lives are somehow different from their own.

Trigger warnings and safe spaces wouldn't be needed if people stopped assaulting, threatening, bullying and abusing others.  


conandrob240 said: As a general practice, do you think a 12 year old should be left home alone? if you think it’s okay, under what circumstances and for how long? How about if you add a 9 yr old child to that mix? Under what circumstances would you leave this mix of kids home alone? I’m asking in general first and then I can add some detail/context. 

 The original post.

nakaille said:
Looks like the last two posters may not have bothered to read the original post?  This is a family in crisis where there is a clear risk of serious injury.  There is mental illness involved, serious neglect and one or more adults who have demonstrated repeatedly that they are unwilling/unable to comprehend anyone's needs but their own.  The comments above trivialize the conversation, imo, and are nothing more than self-serving contempt for folks whose lives are somehow different from their own.
Trigger warnings and safe spaces wouldn't be needed if people stopped assaulting, threatening, bullying and abusing others.  

 I indeed bothered.


Robert_Casotto said:
We used to take nyc city buses at 7 unaccompanied.

A.M. or P.M.?

Either way, well done.


Robert_Casotto said:
We used to take nyc city buses at 7 unaccompanied.  often multiple buses.  it’s no wonder many kids today are incapable of independent thought.

 And did you also have a history of sever depression, self harm, playing with knives, fire and chain saws, not enough food, and a menatlly ill parent?


and even if you didn’t, we did lots of things in the 70s we don’t do now. Just because we survived no seat belts, smoking everywhere, no helmets, being allowed to wander all over alone - doesn’t mean we should go back to doing it that way.




Robert_Casotto said:
We used to take nyc city buses at 7 unaccompanied.  often multiple buses.  it’s no wonder many kids today are incapable of independent thought.

I'm just curious how this was managed?  I was a city kid and usually took the subway.

I thought buses were even harder to navigate because no one announces the stops, and it doesn't necessarily stop at each one. You just had to know when you were getting close to where you were trying to go, and you needed to push the button at the right time... or you'd miss your stop.

Just curious what happened when you got lost or missed your stop?


sprout said:

I'm just curious how this was managed?  I was a city kid and usually took the subway.

FWIW, when my son started taking a city bus to and from school at age 10, it was a straight shot of a dozen blocks. The subway was swarmed with rowdier high school students.


nakaille said:

Trigger warnings and safe spaces wouldn't be needed if people stopped assaulting, threatening, bullying and abusing others.  

 Yes, I can see how trigger warnings are needed when some professor reads a poem, a story or in a play.  Oh, that horrible Shakespeare, that violence, the sex.So bullying and abusive. tongue rolleye 

America, the land of adult children.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/18/theater/trigger-warnings-plays-theater.html

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-and-the-pursuit-leadership/201808/harvard-study-trigger-warnings-might-coddle-the

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/06/02/trigger-warning-contest/


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