So frustrated with the Democrats

The Democrats have done--and are still doing--a god-awful job of fighting against Trump's tactics. He uses lies and repetition constantly, two tactics that have worked so powerfully for him. The Dems don't capitalize on the first and don't use the second.

Imagine for a second if the situation were reversed. Trump would be repeating 50 times a week: "What's he hiding by not revealing his tax returns?" and "He said Mexico would pay for the wall!"  But the Dems effectively give him a pass.

Even Hillary should be firing back. Every time he calls her "Crooked Hillary," she should be calling him "Lyin' Donald." The Dems just don't get it. Even people who never ever thought of Hillary as dishonest now think of her as "crooked" simply because Trump has characterized her that way.

The "if they go low, we go high" approach is idiotic given the mindset and ignorance of the general public. I find it infuriating. We took the high moral ground but lost all branches of government. Duh.


I agree.

The people on MSNBC fight back against Trump but they are not official spokespersons for the Democratic Party. 

The Dem Politician who begins loudly and constantly calling him out will immediately jump to front-runner status as candidate for 2020.


I blame the DNC.  They are useless, no leadership or vision.


If my like button worked I'd hit like under both of your comments.

Add a third like.


Because of money the Dem "Resistance" is more like a "McReistance."    Most of them voted to give him more money for the military than he even asked for.  Some of them voted to give him warrentless surveillance.  Who does that to a person they consider dangerous?  They did not stand up much for the Dreamers and some of them vote for his cabinent positions.  Cory Booker eventually voted against Betsy Devos, but he seems to have considered voting YES. How could it not take more than 2 seconds to vote NO on Betsy Devos?   Anyway, the best way to win is to have a great platform with the kind of things that Americans want like Medicare for All, free college, support for unions and a living wage.  But, instead they try to sabotage the campaigns of Democrats who run on that.  They would rather lose to a Republican than let a Progressive win.


nan said:
  Anyway, the best way to win is to have a great platform with the kind of things that Americans want like Medicare for All, free college, support for unions and a living wage.  

 That is the best way to get your vote or my vote. But the mistake you make, which is a common one, is thinking that everyone thinks like you do. They don't. This is not a criticism of you. Quite the opposite. You are more intelligent and aware than most people.


LOST said:


nan said:
  Anyway, the best way to win is to have a great platform with the kind of things that Americans want like Medicare for All, free college, support for unions and a living wage.  
 That is the best way to get your vote or my vote. But the mistake you make, which is a common one, is thinking that everyone thinks like you do. They don't. This is not a criticism of you. Quite the opposite. You are more intelligent and aware than most people.

 Actually, more people think this way than you might believe.  Those things are rated high in the polls, even among Republicans.  And recently, Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Orcasio-Ortez  had such a big rally in Kansas that they had to move to a larger venue, which was also packed. Kansas!


How people think and how they vote are not the same things. And I believe it was Bertrand Russell who said that people would rather die than think and most do.

And if Trump held a rally across the street he would have had a big crowd.


nan said:


LOST said:

nan said:
  Anyway, the best way to win is to have a great platform with the kind of things that Americans want like Medicare for All, free college, support for unions and a living wage.  
 That is the best way to get your vote or my vote. But the mistake you make, which is a common one, is thinking that everyone thinks like you do. They don't. This is not a criticism of you. Quite the opposite. You are more intelligent and aware than most people.
 Actually, more people think this way than you might believe.  Those things are rated high in the polls, even among Republicans.  And recently, Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Orcasio-Ortez  had such a big rally in Kansas that they had to move to a larger venue, which was also packed. Kansas!

 You mean the rally where she pledged to "flip the seat red"?  https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article215287750.html


she should have pulled the Trump trick and say that she meant to say flip the red seat.


You know, a big part of the problem is that Democrats simply don't get the chance to push their message the way conservatives do. Multiple analyses over the years examining tv news shows prove that Dems are way under-represented.


And the other part is that Dems/libs still operate under the quaint notion that reason will prevail.


drummerboy said:
You know, a big part of the problem is that Democrats simply don't get the chance to push their message the way conservatives do. Multiple analyses over the years examining tv news shows prove that Dems are way under-represented.


And the other part is that Dems/libs still operate under the quaint notion that reason will prevail.

 No, the big problem is that the Democrats have NO message.  The Republicans have a message--they are for small government and giving money to the rich to stimulate the economy and hating immigrants and the freedom to be poor and miserable and absolutely no abortion no matter what.  It's a repulsive message but it offers specific things. 

Contrast this with --- 

What do the Democrats stand for?  They hate Trump. They hate Russia and blame Russia for their stunning loss in 2016.  Did I mention they hate Trump?  They hate Trump but they voted to give him a bigger military budget than he asked for.  Some of his biggest critics also voted to give him warrentless surveillance. Oh, and they want to help people.  They want to give them a better deal.  They think people need help (no details, though).  Oh, and I guess they also voted to deregulate Wall Street but they are for the little guy. Oh, and did we mention Trump is Putin's *****?  We want to hate on Russia.  We will not let Russia ruin our elections like they did last time.  


nan said:
No, the big problem is that the Democrats have NO message.  The Republicans have a message--they are for small government and giving money to the rich to stimulate the economy and hating immigrants and the freedom to be poor and miserable and absolutely no abortion no matter what.  It's a repulsive message but it offers specific things. 

 Exactly right. 


Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People? is a 2016 book by Thomas Frank about how the American Democratic Party has changed to support elitism in the form of a professional class instead of the working class.


Every town where manufacturing decamped to other countries knows which side the Clintons were on. Even if Trump lies to them, and on some level they know it, he is keeping hope alive for them.


Listen Liberal is a great book!  I wish more people on MOL would read it.  Here's Frank in a video talking about what is wrong with Democrats l--



Thomas Frank should've stayed in Kansas. He's useless. He thinks Democrats should go after the Trump base. What a clown.


drummerboy said:
Thomas Frank should've stayed in Kansas. He's useless. He thinks Democrats should go after the Trump base. What a clown.

 Right, forget about the working class.  That worked so well for Hillary.  Let's do it again in 2020!  We will still get the donor money to pay the legion of consultants and we can blame the loss on Russia and Susan Sarandon.  We got this!


nan said:


drummerboy said:
Thomas Frank should've stayed in Kansas. He's useless. He thinks Democrats should go after the Trump base. What a clown.
 Right, forget about the working class.  That worked so well for Hillary.  Let's do it again in 2020!  We will still get the donor money to pay the legion of consultants and we can blame the loss on Russia and Susan Sarandon.  We got this!

 I guess you haven't noticed this yet - but the Trump base is impervious to reason and is driven by race and anger. Spending any amount of effort to win these voters with reason and policy is a waste of time.

Sort of like the time I waste with you .


Hating on voters! How can we lose!


dave said:


nan said:

LOST said:

nan said:
  Anyway, the best way to win is to have a great platform with the kind of things that Americans want like Medicare for All, free college, support for unions and a living wage.  
 That is the best way to get your vote or my vote. But the mistake you make, which is a common one, is thinking that everyone thinks like you do. They don't. This is not a criticism of you. Quite the opposite. You are more intelligent and aware than most people.
 Actually, more people think this way than you might believe.  Those things are rated high in the polls, even among Republicans.  And recently, Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Orcasio-Ortez  had such a big rally in Kansas that they had to move to a larger venue, which was also packed. Kansas!
 You mean the rally where she pledged to "flip the seat red"?  https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article215287750.html

A Freudian slip? She may have had in her thoughts how Sanders helped flip the presidency red.


brealer said:
Hating on voters! How can we lose!

 Yes you're right - Trump won the election on a platform of universal love of his fellow man.

 vampire 



drummerboy said:


nan said:

drummerboy said:

 
 I guess you haven't noticed this yet - but the Trump base is impervious to reason...

Sort of like the time I waste with you .

 I’ve been wondering when you would make that connection. 


des said:


nan said:
No, the big problem is that the Democrats have NO message.  The Republicans have a message--they are for small government and giving money to the rich to stimulate the economy and hating immigrants and the freedom to be poor and miserable and absolutely no abortion no matter what.  It's a repulsive message but it offers specific things. 
 Exactly right. 

Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People? is a 2016 book by Thomas Frank about how the American Democratic Party has changed to support elitism in the form of a professional class instead of the working class.


Every town where manufacturing decamped to other countries knows which side the Clintons were on. Even if Trump lies to them, and on some level they know it, he is keeping hope alive for them.

 Are you saying Hillary lost because she didn’t lie hard enough?


the notion that Trump won the election because his voters were economically stressed has been debunked over and over.  Trump's base was motivated by resentment toward non-whites.  His hard core base is not reachable by any reasonable Democratic message.  Full stop.


The Democrats ARE fighting back, they just get NO coverage at all. They cover Trump stuff ad nauseam, but never cover the statements and pressers that Schumer, Feinstein, Pelosi, etc. have, so it looks like there is silence. They are actually initiating legislation, showing up at protests, and speaking out. I was really surprised and angry when I looked into it. Our media is mostly awful, and derelict in its duty.   


callista said:
The Democrats ARE fighting back, they just get NO coverage at all. They cover Trump stuff ad nauseam, but never cover the statements and pressers that Schumer, Feinstein, Pelosi, etc. have, so it looks like there is silence. They are actually initiating legislation, showing up at protests, and speaking out. I was really surprised and angry when I looked into it. Our media is mostly awful, and derelict in its duty.   

 This is correct.

Meanwhile, current polling shows a very, very strong advantage for Dems in the mid-terms. So we must be doing something right - all the wailing aside.


drummerboy said:


callista said:
The Democrats ARE fighting back, they just get NO coverage at all. They cover Trump stuff ad nauseam, but never cover the statements and pressers that Schumer, Feinstein, Pelosi, etc. have, so it looks like there is silence. They are actually initiating legislation, showing up at protests, and speaking out. I was really surprised and angry when I looked into it. Our media is mostly awful, and derelict in its duty.   
 This is correct.
Meanwhile, current polling shows a very, very strong advantage for Dems in the mid-terms. So we must be doing something right - all the wailing aside.

 we must beware of the concern trolls.  We don't need advice from the likes of James Comey.


Not sure where to post this, so I'll put it here.

NYT has an amazing electoral map of the 2016 election. Interactive, down to the precinct level.



callista said:
The Democrats ARE fighting back, they just get NO coverage at all. They cover Trump stuff ad nauseam, but never cover the statements and pressers that Schumer, Feinstein, Pelosi, etc. have, so it looks like there is silence. They are actually initiating legislation, showing up at protests, and speaking out. I was really surprised and angry when I looked into it. Our media is mostly awful, and derelict in its duty.   

 Sure the media covers Trump stuff ad nauseam, but plenty of the coverage, at least from mainstream outlets, lands somewhere between skeptical and critical of Trump. 

As far as volume of coverage -- Trump is the president, so of course what he does and says is going to get the coverage. Minority leaders Schumer and Pelosi with another boring and predictably critical press conference? Yawn.  

Net-net I don't see how any Democrat can believe the mainstream media isn't on their side these days.


drummerboy said:
Not sure where to post this, so I'll put it here.
NYT has an amazing electoral map of the 2016 election. Interactive, down to the precinct level.



 Thanks db, I have a new toy.


Smedley said:


callista said:
The Democrats ARE fighting back, they just get NO coverage at all. They cover Trump stuff ad nauseam, but never cover the statements and pressers that Schumer, Feinstein, Pelosi, etc. have, so it looks like there is silence. They are actually initiating legislation, showing up at protests, and speaking out. I was really surprised and angry when I looked into it. Our media is mostly awful, and derelict in its duty.   
 Sure the media covers Trump stuff ad nauseam, but plenty of the coverage, at least from mainstream outlets, lands somewhere between skeptical and critical of Trump. 
As far as volume of coverage -- Trump is the president, so of course what he does and says is going to get the coverage. Minority leaders Schumer and Pelosi with another boring and predictably critical press conference? Yawn.  
Net-net I don't see how any Democrat can believe the mainstream media isn't on their side these days.

 On a regular basis MSNBC has Eric Swalwell, Adam Schiff, recently an interview with Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Schumer (both on Rachel Maddow I believe), Cory Booker, Mark Warner, Kamala Harris, Alexandria Ocasio - Cortez, Maxine Waters, Jay Inslee just some of the ones that popped in my head.


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