SOTU

DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

defended with?

Sure.

Biden: To Americans who care about the deficit, I’d like to emphasize that I brought it down faster than any president in history!

Americans who care about the deficit: That’s not accurate, and there’s a big, built-in reason it went down as much as it did.

Biden: Oh, poo.

you have ignored the main point for the sake of a cheap gotcha.

good job.


Biden exceeded my expectations. He is the most underestimated politician perhaps in history.

Of course MTG lived up to expectations. And was it cold in those Chambers? No one else was wearing a coat. I have no clue what that was that Sinema was wearing.

But why to Warren have a crayon on her lapel?


STANV said:

I have no clue what that was that Sinema was wearing.



Yeah, Biden has exceeded my (low) expectations, at least of late. He's held it together without an implosion or major stumble longer than I thought he would have. He's lucky that he has the far right as such easy foils, and I still think he's senile and too damn old to be president. But I have to give him credit for getting by.


drummerboy said:

you have ignored the main point for the sake of a cheap gotcha.

good job.

The main point was that Biden should have made more hay out of the falling deficit. The main counterpoint was that it would have been easy to see through that hay, because the deficit was primed to plunge no matter who was president.


DaveSchmidt said:

Sure.

Biden: To Americans who care about the deficit, I’d like to emphasize that I brought it down faster than any president in history!

Americans who care about the deficit: That’s not accurate, and there’s a big, built-in reason it went down as much as it did.

Biden: Oh, poo.

What does Winnie have to do with the deficit?


Jaytee said:

What does Winnie have to do with the deficit?

Tax revenue falls in a bear market.


DaveSchmidt said:

Jaytee said:

What does Winnie have to do with the deficit?

Tax revenue falls in a bear market.


DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

you have ignored the main point for the sake of a cheap gotcha.

good job.

The main point was that Biden should have made more hay out of the falling deficit. The main counterpoint was that it would have been easy to see through that hay, because the deficit was primed to plunge no matter who was president.

the obsession with the deficit that the GOP has right now is bogus, since it generally only arises when a Democrat in the White House.

so I guess the question is whether a president should be meeting a bogus concern with an overstated claim in response. 

if only we had a political pundit class in this country. People who would be expert on issues like the federal budget deficit and would communicate what it really means in terms that people can understand. Leaving the politics, the electoral horse race, and efforts at "balance" out of the story.

yes, if only...



Smedley said:

Yeah, Biden has exceeded my (low) expectations, at least of late. He's held it together without an implosion or major stumble longer than I thought he would have. He's lucky that he has the far right as such easy foils, and I still think he's senile and too damn old to be president. But I have to give him credit for getting by.

He may “dodder” a bit and stumble on words due to the stutter, but Biden is not senile. He handled that room and manipulated the Rs like a pro. 

His best speech, bar none.

Please give that a rest unless you are willing to back up your opinion with specifics.  Otherwise you’re just being an ageist crank.


jimmurphy said:

Smedley said:

Yeah, Biden has exceeded my (low) expectations, at least of late. He's held it together without an implosion or major stumble longer than I thought he would have. He's lucky that he has the far right as such easy foils, and I still think he's senile and too damn old to be president. But I have to give him credit for getting by.

He may “dodder” a bit and stumble on words due to the stutter, but Biden is not senile. He handled that room and manipulated the Rs like a pro. 

His best speech, bar none.

Please give that a rest unless you are willing to back up your opinion with specifics.  Otherwise you’re just being an ageist crank.

Biden carefully set out a trap for the Republicans, and they walked right into it, over the GOP plans for Social Security.

There may have been some slow thinkers in the room, but Biden wasn't one of them.


DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

you have ignored the main point for the sake of a cheap gotcha.

good job.

The main point was that Biden should have made more hay out of the falling deficit. The main counterpoint was that it would have been easy to see through that hay, because the deficit was primed to plunge no matter who was president.

nope. you got it wrong about the main point. You can try again if you want, but frankly I'm bored now..


jimmurphy said:

Smedley said:

Yeah, Biden has exceeded my (low) expectations, at least of late. He's held it together without an implosion or major stumble longer than I thought he would have. He's lucky that he has the far right as such easy foils, and I still think he's senile and too damn old to be president. But I have to give him credit for getting by.

He may “dodder” a bit and stumble on words due to the stutter, but Biden is not senile. He handled that room and manipulated the Rs like a pro. 

His best speech, bar none.

Please give that a rest unless you are willing to back up your opinion with specifics.  Otherwise you’re just being an ageist crank.

It was a good SoTU, but he was off teleprompter for probably about 2 minutes total, and I don't think delivering a speech refutes any notion of senility. If he's ever sharp throughout a town hall, debate, or interview, id be willing to reconsider my opinion. But as discussed previously, we rarely if ever see him in those unscripted formats these days, which I suspect is by design.

As far as specifics, I imagine you may have seen this from a while back.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/biden-accidentally-flashed-cue-card-104115491.html

Do you think that's totally fine and normal? Do you think VP Biden from 10 years ago was given such kiddie cue cards? It doesn't give you pause in the slightest that this is how he is handled by the people who know him best?



jimmurphy said:

He may “dodder” a bit and stumble on words due to the stutter, but Biden is not senile. He handled that room and manipulated the Rs like a pro. 

His best speech, bar none.

Please give that a rest unless you are willing to back up your opinion with specifics.  Otherwise you’re just being an ageist crank.

credit to you for having the patience to respond to that [adjective that might violate the TOS] comment. 

I'll admit my own expectations going into the speech weren't very high, but for different reasons. I thought we'd get the Biden who desperately wants to believe bipartisanship is possible. But instead IMHO he hit the right balance between offering an open hand, and the back of his hand. I don't know that the speech was a game-changer because as I wrote earlier, facts and reality don't matter in the right wing nutosphere, and the pundits don't really report fairly because they want to report "balancedly". But I thought it was a very good speech.


Smedley said:

As far as specifics, I imagine you may have seen this from a while back.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/biden-accidentally-flashed-cue-card-104115491.html

Do you think that's totally fine and normal? Do you think VP Biden from 10 years ago was given such kiddie cue cards? It doesn't give you pause in the slightest that this is how he is handled by the people who know him best?

It's called a "script", or better yet a "run of show".  It's probably not the only event he had that day, and he was given a summary of what was going to take place. With that, he didn't have to take much time to prepare, and could run through the event as quickly as possible.

Sheesh.


Smedley said:

As far as specifics, I imagine you may have seen this from a while back.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/biden-accidentally-flashed-cue-card-104115491.html

Do you think that's totally fine and normal? Do you think VP Biden from 10 years ago was given such kiddie cue cards? It doesn't give you pause in the slightest that this is how he is handled by the people who know him best?

The very article you cite says that there is “no evidence of incapacitation,” but you’ve already decided that he’s “senile” so you gloss right over that. The article is about the right wing spin, which you’ve apparently bought into.



jimmurphy said:

Smedley said:

As far as specifics, I imagine you may have seen this from a while back.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/biden-accidentally-flashed-cue-card-104115491.html

Do you think that's totally fine and normal? Do you think VP Biden from 10 years ago was given such kiddie cue cards? It doesn't give you pause in the slightest that this is how he is handled by the people who know him best?

The very article you cite says that there is “no evidence of incapacitation,” but you’ve already decided that he’s “senile” so you gloss right over that. The article is about the right wing spin, which you’ve apparently bought into.

My opinion is on the cue card itself rather than the article. If I had posted only the image and not the article, perhaps you would have answered at least one of my questions. 


nohero said:

Smedley said:

As far as specifics, I imagine you may have seen this from a while back.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/biden-accidentally-flashed-cue-card-104115491.html

Do you think that's totally fine and normal? Do you think VP Biden from 10 years ago was given such kiddie cue cards? It doesn't give you pause in the slightest that this is how he is handled by the people who know him best?

It's called a "script", or better yet a "run of show".  It's probably not the only event he had that day, and he was given a summary of what was going to take place. With that, he didn't have to take much time to prepare, and could run through the event as quickly as possible.

Sheesh.

if it is your opinion that it's a nothingburger, then that is your opinion. It's my opinion that it's mighty peculiar, and it shows that Biden is handled like fine china.


Smedley said:

It was a good SoTU, but he was off teleprompter for probably about 2 minutes total, and I don't think delivering a speech refutes any notion of senility. If he's ever sharp throughout a town hall, debate, or interview, id be willing to reconsider my opinion. But as discussed previously, we rarely if ever see him in those unscripted formats these days, which I suspect is by design.

As far as specifics, I imagine you may have seen this from a while back.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/biden-accidentally-flashed-cue-card-104115491.html

Do you think that's totally fine and normal? Do you think VP Biden from 10 years ago was given such kiddie cue cards? It doesn't give you pause in the slightest that this is how he is handled by the people who know him best?

oh Smedley.


There are millions of Americans who would vote for Biden again even if he couldn’t see the teleprompter. What’s with bashing the man’s age? 
The democrats need to talk more about what he has achieved, the amount of achievements he’s made is rivaled only by the new deal. Talk about the CHIPS and Science Act, Inflation Reduction Act, the American rescue plan, two strongest years in jobs growth, the infrastructure law is putting money in the pockets of a lot of republicans in red states but they don’t say much about it. 
At the moment we have to go back with Biden, unless Michelle Obama decides to run….


Smedley said:

if it is your opinion that it's a nothingburger, then that is your opinion. It's my opinion that it's mighty peculiar, and it shows that Biden is handled like fine china.

Okay, well in my opinion you haven’t given any consideration to any other explanations. My opinion includes reasons based on experience. 


nohero said:

Smedley said:

if it is your opinion that it's a nothingburger, then that is your opinion. It's my opinion that it's mighty peculiar, and it shows that Biden is handled like fine china.

Okay, well in my opinion you haven’t given any consideration to any other explanations. My opinion includes reasons based on experience. 

It’s not the existence of the cue card, or script, or run of show, or whatever it’s called that I find peculiar. I am aware such things exist and are commonly used - it even says so in the article. It’s the extraordinary simplicity and child-like construction of the cue card that I find peculiar. 


They’re simple because they’re memory- joggers. D’uh!


drummerboy said:

You can try again if you want, but frankly I'm bored now..

I know. You live in Ohio.

(Cheap gotchas all day long.)


Smedley said:

nohero said:

Smedley said:

if it is your opinion that it's a nothingburger, then that is your opinion. It's my opinion that it's mighty peculiar, and it shows that Biden is handled like fine china.

Okay, well in my opinion you haven’t given any consideration to any other explanations. My opinion includes reasons based on experience. 

It’s not the existence of the cue card, or script, or run of show, or whatever it’s called that I find peculiar. I am aware such things exist and are commonly used - it even says so in the article. It’s the extraordinary simplicity and child-like construction of the cue card that I find peculiar. 

wait until you get a little older. I'm considerably younger than the POTUS, but my eyes would very much appreciate stage directions spelled out in really big letters to tell ME where to stand, or whom to address.

Maybe you didn't notice that Mr. Biden wasn't wearing glasses in that photo. And personally, even with my glasses on, the rest of the type on that card would be a bit of a pain in the behind for me to read quickly.

but whatever, you're 100% convinced the president is "senile" and there's not much that's likely to change your mind. Especially since "senile" is not a medical term, so it can mean pretty much anything you choose it to mean.


I think trumpenstein is senile. He’s not into reading anything, he just rambles on about making America the place his father was able to operate freely in…


ml1 said:

but whatever, you're 100% convinced the president is "senile" and there's not much that's likely to change your mind. Especially since "senile" is not a medical term, so it can mean pretty much anything you choose it to mean.

^^This


Smedley said:

It’s not the existence of the cue card, or script, or run of show, or whatever it’s called that I find peculiar. I am aware such things exist and are commonly used - it even says so in the article. It’s the extraordinary simplicity and child-like construction of the cue card that I find peculiar. 

If the instructions were because he was “senile”, they wouldn’t be that useful. If they were for someone who was busy and had to be quickly told what the “script” was, they’re still bare bones. 

“The full list of the instructions reads:

  • "YOU enter the Roosevelt Room and say hello to participants."
  • "YOU take YOUR seat. "
  • "Press enters."
  • "YOU give brief comments [...]" This note was partially blocked by Biden's finger.
  • "Press departs."
  • "YOU ask Liz Shuler, President, AFL-CIO, a question. Note: Liz is joining virtually."
  • "YOU thank participants."
  • "YOU depart."



ml1 said:

but whatever, you're 100% convinced the president is "senile" and there's not much that's likely to change your mind. Especially since "senile" is not a medical term, so it can mean pretty much anything you choose it to mean.

You raise a good point on just what is "senile". It's not a medical term, there is no precise definition, and also it is a loaded word. FWIW, I just did a quick lookup and my context and utilization of the word is in-line with the first definition that comes up via Google: "(of a person) having or showing the weaknesses or diseases of old age, especially a loss of mental faculties."

And yes, I am convinced that Joe Biden has lost mental faculties - some mental faculties, not all mental faculties obviously - and thus is by definition senile. I don't base my opinion on my interpretation of the cue card - nor do I base it on media articles or falling for right-wing tropes - I base my opinion on many direct observations of Joe Biden as presidential candidate and president 2019-present, compared with many observations of Joe Biden as VP and VP candidate 2008-2016. 

You think he's the same guy, I don't. We'll have to agree to disagree, as there's no point in re-litigating a topic has been covered ad nauseam.  


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