The 1/6 Committee Hearings
terp said:
If the guys who were in the car with him say it happened I will believe them. I'm pretty damned sure they won't say that though.
They might not - like most LE, they tend to lie.
drummerboy said:
terp said:
If the guys who were in the car with him say it happened I will believe them. I'm pretty damned sure they won't say that though.
They might not - like most LE, they tend to lie.
Well there's your out. I believe the person that was retelling the story over those who were actually there. Those guys are liars!!
jimmurphy said:
terp said:
Here's the thing. The Secret Service is saying that it didn't happen. The reason they're saying this is because it didn't happen. It doesn't even pass the smell test for the love of Christ. But sure, I'm the problem. The rubes who will believe any obvious nonsense that fits into ok their preconceived infantile understanding of the world who actually vote are just fine
I await the statement from the Secret Service.
Hutchinson testified under oath that Tony Ornato told her immediately after the event that Trump grabbed the steering wheel and lunged for Bobby Engel. Hutchinson said they were in the Beast. Several news sources have reported that unidentified sources have told them that Engel and Ornato say that Trump did not lunge for Engel or grab the steering wheel. They did not dispute that Trump wanted to go to the capitol.
"In an interview with the WashPost in April, @jdawsey1 reported Trump himself said he pressed the Secret Service to go to the Capitol and they stopped him. Secret Service also testified they had it out with him over it.
The lunging for the steering wheel is the unconfirmed detail"
https://twitter.com/JustSchmeltzer/status/1541922719603666944
"Hutchinson testified that she heard about the incident right afterward from a visibly shaken Tony Ornato, Trump's former lead Secret Service agent who controversially became his White House deputy chief of staff for operations in 2020."
"An unidentified Secret Service official told CNN that Ornato, who works for the Secret Service again and has disputed sworn testimony involving Trump before, denies telling Hutchinson that story, and that agents involved are prepared to testify under oath that the incident, as described, didn't happened. The Jan. 6 committee said it "found Ms. Hutchinson's testimony to be credible" but accepted the offer."
"The Secret Service allowed Ornato to cross over into the political role of helping the president organize events and get reelected, a role Hutchinson described as one of the most important in the White House. Many agents and staff have described Ornato as a “yes man” to Trump, who sought to help the president launch campaign rallies in red states amid rising and lethal surges of the coronavirus there, and to create a photo op of strength outside the White House that led to the forcible removal of people peacefully protesting George Floyd’s killing from a park outside the White House."
terp said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
If the guys who were in the car with him say it happened I will believe them. I'm pretty damned sure they won't say that though.
They might not - like most LE, they tend to lie.
Well there's your out. I believe the person that was retelling the story over those who were actually there. Those guys are liars!!
Why, in god's name, would she make up a wacky story like that? Makes no sense at all.
Tony Ornato is bit compromised. He was appointed to Deputy Chief of Staff by Trump (at Melania's request) while an SS agent - a pretty severe breach of SS protocol, which the SS should never have allowed. The mere fact that he accepted this political position says a lot about him - none of it good.
So my proclivity would be to believe that he would lie to protect Trump.
And that is why, for the most part, I never talk to Terp. He's just a right wing Nan.
GoSlugs said:
And that is why, for the most part, I never talk to Terp. He's just a right wing Nan.
I'm not really right wing, but I get why you might write me off as right wing.
drummerboy said:
terp said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
If the guys who were in the car with him say it happened I will believe them. I'm pretty damned sure they won't say that though.
They might not - like most LE, they tend to lie.
Well there's your out. I believe the person that was retelling the story over those who were actually there. Those guys are liars!!
Why, in god's name, would she make up a wacky story like that? Makes no sense at all.
Tony Ornato is bit compromised. He was appointed to Deputy Chief of Staff by Trump (at Melania's request) while an SS agent - a pretty severe breach of SS protocol, which the SS should never have allowed. The mere fact that he accepted this political position says a lot about him - none of it good.
So my proclivity would be to believe that we would lie to protect Trump.
Yes. Because you are starting from the point that Trump did this, because you do not like the man. So, you will believe the story that most fits your view.
I am not saying Trump is a great guy, but does it bother people that these allegations have been going on for years, and there never seems to be much there? I mean,why can't this guy get prosecuted? He was a puppet of Putin for gawds sake. He's probably working with Putin right now to drive inflation up!
drummerboy said:
terp said:
GoSlugs said:
And that is why, for the most part, I never talk to Terp. He's just a right wing Nan.
I'm not really right wing, but I get why you might write me off as right wing.
well, yeah, it's because of the stuff you put in your posts.
OK. What are the right wing policies I favor? Just a sampling would be fine.
GoSlugs said:
His drag name is Miss Understood.
See. I'm guessing this person votes. Democracy will never work
terp said:
See. I'm guessing this person votes. Democracy will never work
I prefer to think of it as cancelling your vote. It's futile but fun.
Anyway, that is far more attention than you deserve. I wish you luck, you most certainly will need it.
What if trumpenstein told Ornato to say he (Donny) tried to grab the steering wheel? This way trumpenstein don’t have to face the wrath of the proud boys and oath keepers? He capable of concoctions you know.
I guess we will see what the SS says. If they say it didn’t happen, then trumpenstein disseminated another extraordinary lie. I’m pretty sure that’s the case.
GoSlugs said:
His drag name is Miss Understood.
I’m pretty certain it’s Miss Led
The claim that Trump tried to grab the steering wheel was certainly an arresting image, but it seems the more impactful revelation (and one not disputed) is that Trump believed he was going to the capitol, grew angry when told he wasn't, and still tried to go. Combined with the earlier knowledge that his supporters were armed and that he urged them to march to the capitol, it implicates him even more deeply than he already was.
I have no idea if he'll face any criminal prosecution. Garland would have to believe he'd be almost certain to win a conviction to go forward, which is far from certain -- going after a president is a dangerous road, even for one who deserves as as clearly as Trump does.
terp said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
If the guys who were in the car with him say it happened I will believe them. I'm pretty damned sure they won't say that though.
They might not - like most LE, they tend to lie.
Well there's your out. I believe the person that was retelling the story over those who were actually there. Those guys are liars!!
Why, in god's name, would she make up a wacky story like that? Makes no sense at all.
Tony Ornato is bit compromised. He was appointed to Deputy Chief of Staff by Trump (at Melania's request) while an SS agent - a pretty severe breach of SS protocol, which the SS should never have allowed. The mere fact that he accepted this political position says a lot about him - none of it good.
So my proclivity would be to believe that we would lie to protect Trump.
Yes. Because you are starting from the point that Trump did this, because you do not like the man. So, you will believe the story that most fits your view.
I am not saying Trump is a great guy, but does it bother people that these allegations have been going on for years, and there never seems to be much there? I mean,why can't this guy get prosecuted? He was a puppet of Putin for gawds sake. He's probably working with Putin right now to drive inflation up!
He can't get prosecuted because his one great talent is skirting the law. Or haven't you noticed? Been doing it his whole life.
Also, I pretty clearly explained why I would believe Hutchinson over Ornato, but you kinda just ignored it.
Hutchinson's testimony was direct, not hearsay, testimony of what she saw, and what she was told, when the President's entourage returned to the White House after the rally.
If you pay attention, the Commitee made sure to ask her about what Engel's state of mind seemed to be when the story was related to her, right after it happened.
When I returned to the White House, I walked upstairs towards the chief of staff's office. And I noticed Mr. Ornado lingering outside of the office. Once we had made eye contact, he quickly waved me to go into his office, which was just across the hall from mine.
When I went in, he shut the door. And I noticed Bobby Engel, who was the head of Mr. Trump's security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost.
That's the foundation for a hearsay exception in a court of law.
nohero said:
Hutchinson's testimony was direct, not hearsay, testimony of what she saw, and what she was told, when the President's entourage returned to the White House after the rally.
If you pay attention, the Commitee made sure to ask her about what Engel's state of mind seemed to be when the story was related to her, right after it happened.
When I returned to the White House, I walked upstairs towards the chief of staff's office. And I noticed Mr. Ornado lingering outside of the office. Once we had made eye contact, he quickly waved me to go into his office, which was just across the hall from mine.
When I went in, he shut the door. And I noticed Bobby Engel, who was the head of Mr. Trump's security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost.That's the foundation for a hearsay exception in a court of law.
why didn't they just ask the secret service?
terp said:
nohero said:
Hutchinson's testimony was direct, not hearsay, testimony of what she saw, and what she was told, when the President's entourage returned to the White House after the rally.
If you pay attention, the Commitee made sure to ask her about what Engel's state of mind seemed to be when the story was related to her, right after it happened.
When I returned to the White House, I walked upstairs towards the chief of staff's office. And I noticed Mr. Ornado lingering outside of the office. Once we had made eye contact, he quickly waved me to go into his office, which was just across the hall from mine.
When I went in, he shut the door. And I noticed Bobby Engel, who was the head of Mr. Trump's security detail, sitting in a chair, just looking somewhat discombobulated and a little lost.That's the foundation for a hearsay exception in a court of law.
why didn't they just ask the secret service?
That's a probable next step, especially since the two gentlemen involved now know that Ms. Hutchinson has testified.
It's also probable that the Committee will be examining, if they haven't already, Secret Service records about plans for the President's movements that day. If you recall, they questioned Ms. Hutchinson about the procedures used for "scheduled" and "OTR" movements of the President. An "OTR" (often done using that SUV that Trump was in that day, instead of the large armored limo) isn't as planned as a public movement, but it's still planned.
If Trump did think that he would go to the Capitol, there may be Secret Service records about the arrangements being planned for that. We'll find out, either way, as hearings go on.
Cassidy Hutchinson, though young, most certainly is not a fool. She understood the personal risk she was taking in testifying. She was almost certainly advised that she would be subject to vicious attacks intended to discredit her. But she testified anyway. She testified because she still believes in the Constitution. She told the truth. And the problem for Trump is that most Americans know this.
drummerboy said:
terp said:
jimmurphy said:
terp said:
Here's the thing. The Secret Service is saying that it didn't happen. The reason they're saying this is because it didn't happen. It doesn't even pass the smell test for the love of Christ. But sure, I'm the problem. The rubes who will believe any obvious nonsense that fits into ok their preconceived infantile understanding of the world who actually vote are just fine
I await the statement from the Secret Service.
If it makes you feel better, even after the Secret Service says it never happened I'm sure the fact checkers will still say the story is "mostly true".
As a coincidence, I'm listening to a podcast by the great Martyrmade about Jeffrey Epstein. Vanity Fair wouldn't run a story on Epstein years ago because the reporter couldn't get 3 people to corroborate some of the facts. But here we have congressional testimony from a witness providing a 2nd hand account. It's all above board I'm sure.
She did it under oath. She'll be subject to perjury if it's shown she lied. Unlikely she made it up.
But all of a sudden you'll believe the Secret Service?
Now that's funny.
It is peculiar that terp believes the institution but not the individual. Isn't that contrary to libertarianism?
Smedley said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
jimmurphy said:
terp said:
Here's the thing. The Secret Service is saying that it didn't happen. The reason they're saying this is because it didn't happen. It doesn't even pass the smell test for the love of Christ. But sure, I'm the problem. The rubes who will believe any obvious nonsense that fits into ok their preconceived infantile understanding of the world who actually vote are just fine
I await the statement from the Secret Service.
If it makes you feel better, even after the Secret Service says it never happened I'm sure the fact checkers will still say the story is "mostly true".
As a coincidence, I'm listening to a podcast by the great Martyrmade about Jeffrey Epstein. Vanity Fair wouldn't run a story on Epstein years ago because the reporter couldn't get 3 people to corroborate some of the facts. But here we have congressional testimony from a witness providing a 2nd hand account. It's all above board I'm sure.
She did it under oath. She'll be subject to perjury if it's shown she lied. Unlikely she made it up.
But all of a sudden you'll believe the Secret Service?
Now that's funny.
It is peculiar that terp believes the institution but not the individual. Isn't that contrary to libertarianism?
terp has fallen into the anti-anti-Trump brigade. Not exactly a supporter, but given to giving that POS the benefit of many doubts.
Smedley said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
jimmurphy said:
terp said:
Here's the thing. The Secret Service is saying that it didn't happen. The reason they're saying this is because it didn't happen. It doesn't even pass the smell test for the love of Christ. But sure, I'm the problem. The rubes who will believe any obvious nonsense that fits into ok their preconceived infantile understanding of the world who actually vote are just fine
I await the statement from the Secret Service.
If it makes you feel better, even after the Secret Service says it never happened I'm sure the fact checkers will still say the story is "mostly true".
As a coincidence, I'm listening to a podcast by the great Martyrmade about Jeffrey Epstein. Vanity Fair wouldn't run a story on Epstein years ago because the reporter couldn't get 3 people to corroborate some of the facts. But here we have congressional testimony from a witness providing a 2nd hand account. It's all above board I'm sure.
She did it under oath. She'll be subject to perjury if it's shown she lied. Unlikely she made it up.
But all of a sudden you'll believe the Secret Service?
Now that's funny.
It is peculiar that terp believes the institution but not the individual. Isn't that contrary to libertarianism?
I believe the people that were there. And why, only now, ask the people that were there?
drummerboy said:
Smedley said:
drummerboy said:
terp said:
jimmurphy said:
terp said:
Here's the thing. The Secret Service is saying that it didn't happen. The reason they're saying this is because it didn't happen. It doesn't even pass the smell test for the love of Christ. But sure, I'm the problem. The rubes who will believe any obvious nonsense that fits into ok their preconceived infantile understanding of the world who actually vote are just fine
I await the statement from the Secret Service.
If it makes you feel better, even after the Secret Service says it never happened I'm sure the fact checkers will still say the story is "mostly true".
As a coincidence, I'm listening to a podcast by the great Martyrmade about Jeffrey Epstein. Vanity Fair wouldn't run a story on Epstein years ago because the reporter couldn't get 3 people to corroborate some of the facts. But here we have congressional testimony from a witness providing a 2nd hand account. It's all above board I'm sure.
She did it under oath. She'll be subject to perjury if it's shown she lied. Unlikely she made it up.
But all of a sudden you'll believe the Secret Service?
Now that's funny.
It is peculiar that terp believes the institution but not the individual. Isn't that contrary to libertarianism?
terp has fallen into the anti-anti-Trump brigade. Not exactly a supporter, but given to giving that POS the benefit of many doubts.
Burden of proof. A standard the ant-Trump crowd has fallen far short of time and time again.
I am for the truth. The truth shall set you free. Fits in fine with Liberty.
To me, these hearings seem to be about 2 things. Motivating the democratic base by bludgeoning the opposition and making us fearful of our fellow citizens. They will try to turn the war on terror inwards.
I may have mentioned prior, but while I see liberty as an end goal, I am not sure I call myself a libertarian any longer. But that's a whole other thread.
terp said:
I may have mentioned prior, but while I see liberty as an end goal, I am not sure I call myself a libertarian any longer. But that's a whole other thread.
Intrigued. Please start that thread and explain.
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If the guys who were in the car with him say it happened I will believe them. I'm pretty damned sure they won't say that though.