Tired of job applications that ask what year I graduated from college
If they attempt to confirm your enrollment through a third party, using an incorrect date will likely invalidate your application.
Oh for goodness sake. If they have a problem with your age that is most certainly their problem and who would want to work for them in that environment. Thankfully, throughout my career of working with young 'un's, they appreciated my experience and I their youth. (Of course this is an engineering industry where experience counts more than youth.)
oneofthegirls said:
Oh for goodness sake. If they have a problem with your age that is most certainly their problem and who would want to work for them in that environment. Thankfully, throughout my career of working with young 'un's, they appreciated my experience and I their youth. (Of course this is an engineering industry where experience counts more than youth.)
That's really not helpful.
And what about with a face to face interview. Most people are pretty good as guesstimating ages if that is their agenda.
At my last job interview, they did not ask me my age or date of graduation, but to run the criminal background check, they had to have my date of birth. This ought to be illegal. I got the job anyway.
Tom, to my belief, that is because age does not matter as long as you give proof that you qualify for the job.
oneofthegirls said:
And what about with a face to face interview. Most people are pretty good as guesstimating ages if that is their agenda.
Once you get in the door, you can wow them with what you can offer. But if you can't get in the door...
What about linked in? I have been very spoiled in my career with networking contacts. Honestly I can't recall a job where I didn't already have a foot in the door through networking. Whether it be through a family member or an agent from a hiring agency. I have been a consultant with engineering firms that hired me out. I worked for Stone and Webster engineering for 17 years with a promise of a pension. Not. did not happen. I was 47 years old and tried to work on minimum wage in FL. Thankfully a BIL pushed me to send in my resume to a head hunter in NY. I got the job and the AirTrain to JFK is complete. I then continued with this same co. To 2nd ave Subway project. And then was seduced by another to join the ARC project. We all know what happened to that one. Yet in all of my years working, I never felt age discrimation. I am happily retired now and no longer choose to work outside of my home. Even in retirement I was contacted to comment on an engineering procedure. It was only one week work but I was thankful to be appreciated.
My concern is that the focus be on service. If one is offering a service that is needed, it is always welcome.
My concern is that the focus be on service. If one is offering a service that is needed, it is always welcome.
oneofthegirls said:
Tom, to my belief, that is because age does not matter as long as you give proof that you qualify for the job.
No, I think you don't understand. It is illegal to ask an applicant what his age is. There is age discrimination going on, and it's real. It's a giant loophole that they didn't ask me my age on the application but they did in the background search form. This is not right!
Not everyone completes college in their early twenties. Thus date of graduation is more a measure of how current your skills/knowledge base is apt to be than how old you are. Depending on your industry/field and your employment history, the date of your degree may be a very appropriate question to ask because some fields have a rapidly changing technology, where up to date knowledge base/skills are essential to being able to perform the job for which you are applying. In such a case, asking for the date you graduated from college may well be job related. In other cases, the date of graduation box on a standard on-line application form may be ignored altogether by the person reviewing your resume or may only be used as an easier means of verifying your college degree with the college you attended. That isn't to say that there is no age discrimination going on. However, asking the date you graduated from college by itself need not be intended to weed out older applicants.
Was the background search done by a third party?Tom_Reingold said:
No, I think you don't understand. It is illegal to ask an applicant what his age is. There is age discrimination going on, and it's real. It's a giant loophole that they didn't ask me my age on the application but they did in the background search form. This is not right!oneofthegirls said:
Tom, to my belief, that is because age does not matter as long as you give proof that you qualify for the job.
Apr 2, 2015 at 9:37am Edited
joan_crystal said:
Not everyone completes college in their early twenties. Thus date of graduation is more a measure of how current your skills/knowledge base is apt to be than how old you are. Depending on your industry/field and your employment history, the date of your degree may be a very appropriate question to ask because some fields have a rapidly changing technology, where up to date knowledge base/skills are essential to being able to perform the job for which you are applying. In such a case, asking for the date you graduated from college may well be job related. In other cases, the date of graduation box on a standard on-line application form may be ignored altogether by the person reviewing your resume or may only be used as an easier means of verifying your college degree with the college you attended. That isn't to say that there is no age discrimination going on. However, asking the date you graduated from college by itself need not be intended to weed out older applicants.
There are very few fields where technology changes so rapidly and where what you learn in college is relevant in the real world. Technology is usually changed in industry rather than by undergraduates. So your experience is much more valuable than the courses you took as an undergrad.
I have a VERY technical degree. What I learned after graduating was easily 3-7 years ahead of what I learned in school.
Oh particleman, I so agree the difference is night and day with what you learn in school and what you learn in The field. What I learned in the field could be taught in schools. My son who was a student at AVS film school went back and taught his professors what he learned about Avid computers.
Tom_Reingold said:
oneofthegirls said:
Tom, to my belief, that is because age does not matter as long as you give proof that you qualify for the job.
No, I think you don't understand. It is illegal to ask an applicant what his age is. There is age discrimination going on, and it's real. It's a giant loophole that they didn't ask me my age on the application but they did in the background search form. This is not right!
Tom, no company is going to run a background check unless they are serious about hiring you. The background check is not used for discrimination but to make sure you are what you represent yourself to be (education, previous employers) and that you are not a risk (currently on drugs, lying about your criminal background). From a legal standpoint, it is hard to rescind an offer, so you should know that if it happened that it certainly had nothing to do with the age disclosed on your background check. Plus, if you have a common name the DOB helps to verify, for example, which John Smith robbed a bank in 2012 in Iowa. If you're the innocent John Smith, you want the DOB to show you're not the criminal.
ParticleMan: You will note that I wrote a COMBINATION of date of degree and experieince record could indicate whether the person had sufficiently up to date skill set/knowledge base to perform the duties of the position day 1. I have reviewed a large number of applications in which the candidate had an older degree (often by ten years or more) and no professional experience in the field after graduation. In a field with rapidly changing technology, this could be grounds for finding the person not qualified.
bella said:
Tom_Reingold said:
oneofthegirls said:
Tom, to my belief, that is because age does not matter as long as you give proof that you qualify for the job.
No, I think you don't understand. It is illegal to ask an applicant what his age is. There is age discrimination going on, and it's real. It's a giant loophole that they didn't ask me my age on the application but they did in the background search form. This is not right!
Tom, no company is going to run a background check unless they are serious about hiring you. The background check is not used for discrimination but to make sure you are what you represent yourself to be (education, previous employers) and that you are not a risk (currently on drugs, lying about your criminal background). From a legal standpoint, it is hard to rescind an offer, so you should know that if it happened that it certainly had nothing to do with the age disclosed on your background check. Plus, if you have a common name the DOB helps to verify, for example, which John Smith robbed a bank in 2012 in Iowa. If you're the innocent John Smith, you want the DOB to show you're not the criminal.
There you go Tom. This is not age discrimination.
You are just getting to be a old and qualified fart like I am. >
<
< joan_crystal said:
ParticleMan: You will note that I wrote a COMBINATION of date of degree and experieince record could indicate whether the person had sufficiently up to date skill set/knowledge base to perform the duties of the position day 1. I have reviewed a large number of applications in which the candidate had an older degree (often by ten years or more) and no professional experience in the field after graduation. In a field with rapidly changing technology, this could be grounds for finding the person not qualified.
It really is about job qualification, isn't it Joan.
joan_crystal said:
ParticleMan: You will note that I wrote a COMBINATION of date of degree and experieince record could indicate whether the person had sufficiently up to date skill set/knowledge base to perform the duties of the position day 1. I have reviewed a large number of applications in which the candidate had an older degree (often by ten years or more) and no professional experience in the field after graduation. In a field with rapidly changing technology, this could be grounds for finding the person not qualified.
IMHO, if someone had a degree and no professional experience in the field (no matter how many years), unless it's an entry level position, they're not qualified.
I was always kind of glad that I looked about 10 years younger than I really was and I went to college very late. I started when I was 25, and went on to get my masters degree, so I could honestly say I "graduated" about 10 years later than I would have if I had started when I was 18 and gone straight through. It was an oddball progression, but it worked in my favor.
What is odd is that I had 10 years experience as a housewife before I started my 17 years of experience at Stone & Webster. This may have made me 10 years younger than I actually am. :-D
Truthfully, I never felt anyone looked at that gap. My experience with a world renowned company in my field of expertise got me throught the door. I may have started as a data input operator, yet being in that environment and climbing through the ranks and having the experience of the field that I loved being a part of, THAT is what put me on the playing field of others I wanted to play with.
Over 40 years of age is a protected group in employment law. If you could prove that you didn't get a job due to your age, there would be recourse. The trick is proving it.
Yes, it was for a third party background check. Yes, it is to confirm that I am who I said I am and also to make sure I don't have a criminal background. No, they didn't ask my birthdate to know how old I am. But in asking for my birthdate, they do find out how old I am. And this is illegal. At least it used to be. The law is probably still on the books, but since employers get away with asking for my birthdate on the background check form, it is effectively legal.
Just because they get away with it does not mean there is no age discrimination. To say they don't ask it to discriminate is no excuse whatsoever. In fact, that's a pretty freaking stupid excuse. Can they ask you your ethnic background but then promise that they won't discriminate on that basis? No, they can't.
Just because they get away with it does not mean there is no age discrimination. To say they don't ask it to discriminate is no excuse whatsoever. In fact, that's a pretty freaking stupid excuse. Can they ask you your ethnic background but then promise that they won't discriminate on that basis? No, they can't.
Heck, at least you HAVE 'educational experience'. I never finished college, so I'm pretty much limited to getting jobs that don't use an obnoxious HR database. Fortunately I have enough experience that it hasn't been a problem recently, but it is still annoying to know that I'll get instantly filtered out despite the fact that I have almost 20 years of experience.
(I also don't have any substantial non-college training, or professional certifications to list. By any proper metric I should be unemployed!)
(I also don't have any substantial non-college training, or professional certifications to list. By any proper metric I should be unemployed!)
Apr 2, 2015 at 11:04am Edited
I interviewed with a recruiter for a job. The recruiter asked me among other things if I was married, had children and owned my home. These questions are theoretically illegal to ask and I told the recruiter this. They claimed that only applied to the employer but I had to explain they represented the employer.
qrsdonnell, I never finished college either. Neither did my son who taught computer to his professors. The point is to follow your passion and continue to educate yourself through work or in courses outside of work. My son loves his work, has won two sports Emmys for it and now heads a department in video distribution for a well known paper. Why? Because he loves his work. I felt the same with my chosen field. My advice to you is to network with that 20 years experience group. Try LinkedIn.
oneofthegirls: Yes it is really about qualification. At least, that is an argument that employers can use when asking for this information. Date of college graduation, may not be an absolute indicator of an applicants age, but if an applicant claims to have graduated from graduate school in 1968, it is a pretty good indicator of the applicant being a medicare recipient. Sometimes, this is a question that is asked legitimately but as others have stated, it can also be a way around age discrimination laws. As long as the question can be shown to be job related, the employer can continue to ask the question without being successfully found to have violated age discrimination laws.
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