Abuse Testimony, but BOE Reappoints CHS Coach Anyway!

Apparently, according to 7 members of the BOE, the answer is yes. :O

BaseballMom said:

Let me pose a hypothetical:

If virtually all the kids who played after Fischetti was a varsity coach stated under oath, on the condition of anonymity, that Fischetti commonly berates a player or the team generally as "pussies," "fags," and "gay" -- in front of other players and in locations such as on the practice field, on the field, on the bus, and in team meetings -- and assume this is his coaching/motivational style -- should Fischetti be permitted to retain his coaching position?

This meets the definition of a bully coach. There is not currently and never was any place for a bully coach. This isn't old school coaching, it's bullying. It doesn't make kids stronger. It breaks them down. The ones that can tough it out are the ones than can tune it out.

Add to this, the man is a vindictive coward.

phenixrising said:

Add to this, the man is a vindictive coward.

Says someone who posts anonymously.

Wendy Lauter

If your child plans on playing baseball, then you have to post anonymously.

Graf said:

If your child plans on playing baseball, then you have to post anonymously.

BS. And in any event phenixrising's kids likely are way past that stage.

Graf said:

If your child plans on playing baseball, then you have to post anonymously.

Exactly. Especially since the coach is still on the job!

BaseballMom said:

Worth watching:

On demand recording of BOE meeting is here;
http://somatv.pegcentral.com/player.php?video=80919b66efa9788bed4f3f8911ae6d81
 
 Starts at about 00:42:15

Senior Malcolm Stern, starts at about 01:21:45

+1 for Malcolm!

wendy said:

Graf said:

If your child plans on playing baseball, then you have to post anonymously.

BS. And in any event phenixrising's kids likely are way past that stage.

Don't worry Wendy, I had no problem saying this face to face to BOTH back in the days. I have no problem saying it now. One of the cowards refused to even look us in the eyes when he was addressed.

You have NO CLUE on what went on with other families involved with this team.

I am currently watching the Board presentation. I believe Mr. Kreis, the Columbia hs baseball booster president whose son is currently a junior and has played varsity since freshman speaks words of wisdom. I'm sure there is room for others opinions too but for those who said there was no current parent who espoused support for the current coaches, again I say BS.

And now here is another current parent also supporting the current coaches. So again I call BS on some including the "straight_life" person whoever the hell they are. Sheesh.

And I have a CLUE about what went on during my son's 4 years there phenixrising. I will discuss with real people who address me in real time their varied opinions.
Wendy Lauter

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche

Nuff said.

phenixrising said:

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche

Nuff said.

Enough lollygagging.
Wendy Lauter

Still waiting for a former student who played under Fischetti as a varsity coach to speak up for him.

Going once, going twice . . .

I heard plenty of students and parents support Fischetti in all his roles. I frankly don't give a crap about the ratio of who supported who when. You, you anonymous complainer, apparently do. You've said it time and time again. Enough already.

Wendy Lauter

straight_life said:

Still waiting for a former student who played under Fischetti as a varsity coach to speak up for him.

Going once, going twice . . .

Just pointing out very few students post here, on any subject matter whatsoever, so I think your point is not very strong.

max_weisenfeld said:

straight_life said:

Still waiting for a former student who played under Fischetti as a varsity coach to speak up for him.

Going once, going twice . . .

Just pointing out very few students post here, on any subject matter whatsoever, so I think your point is not very strong.

Also, aside from any transfers out (who presumably could be discounted from this challenge anyway), I believe the pool of former students would total just two senior classes, most or all of them at college somewhere at the moment.

BaseballMom said:

Let me pose a hypothetical:

If virtually all the kids who played after Fischetti was a varsity coach stated under oath, on the condition of anonymity, that Fischetti commonly berates a player or the team generally as "pussies," "fags," and "gay" -- in front of other players and in locations such as on the practice field, on the field, on the bus, and in team meetings -- and assume this is his coaching/motivational style -- should Fischetti be permitted to retain his coaching position?

@callista and @Graf commented. No one else? @wendy? Max? Anyone? It's a hypothetical. It is not my intent to lure anyone down the primrose path. I am genuinely interested in your answers.

straight_life said:

Still waiting for a former student who played under Fischetti as a varsity coach to speak up for him.

Going once, going twice . . .

The only thing relevant are the allegations of bullying and whether or not they are substantiated. The number and quality of favorable testimonials is irrelevant.

The only strong sense I get from this thread and from situations at other schools is that prompt, independent investigation by an outside investigator is the only way to go forward. Unfortunately, I think what we can expect in the future is that parents will valid complaints will start with lawyers and not the athletic director.

His current or former players don't have to do it MOL. Any social or physical medium will do.

I would think that if he had their support , some of them would let people know. They did not speak at he BOE meeting, for example. They have not spoken publicly in the six days since the Board of Education meeting. Their silence speaks volumes.

@BaseballMom: There is no excuse for using words like "fags" and "gay" as epithets. They should not be tolerated. I would probably grant a coach an opportunity, however, to get the message and rid himself of them before dismissal became necessary. In and of itself, on the face of it (that is, assuming they are not directed specifically at a gay player), their use is not what I personally would consider bullying or abuse.

Neither does the situation that suetonius described. Maybe I'm not giving these things enough thought, but had that happened to my son, it wouldn't have crossed my mind to object. Shaming wouldn't be in my toolbox if I were a coach, but -- again, in and of itself -- I don't think it disqualifies someone from being one.

There have been some wise observations in this discussion about what constitutes a great coach. To me, there is a good deal of latitude shy of greatness for any of us, coaches included, to be able to keep our jobs. As a parent of a student who still has hopes ("plans," as Graf put it last night, is too assured a word in his case) of remaining in the program somehow, I take the complaints and concerns seriously. For now, like moose, I'll wait and see what the district counsel determines.

The AD is the F man's buddy

What's his deal?

Also, if you say anything to or about the F man that he is not down with,

your baseball playing kid gets screwed.

Vinictive, abusive, and self centered. Just bad, bad news

DaveSchmidt said:

@BaseballMom: There is no excuse for using words like "fags" and "gay" as epithets. They should not be tolerated. I would probably grant a coach an opportunity, however, to get the message and rid himself of them before dismissal became necessary. In and of itself, on the face of it (that is, assuming they are not directed specifically at a gay player), their use is not what I personally would consider bullying or abuse.

Neither does the situation that suetonius described. Maybe I'm not giving these things enough thought, but had that happened to my son, it wouldn't have crossed my mind to object. Shaming wouldn't be in my toolbox if I were a coach, but -- again, in and of itself -- I don't think it disqualifies someone from being one.

There have been some wise observations in this discussion about what constitutes a great coach. To me, there is a good deal of latitude shy of greatness for any of us, coaches included, to be able to keep our jobs. As a parent of a student who still has hopes ("plans," as Graf put it last night, is too assured a word in his case) of remaining in the program somehow, I take the complaints and concerns seriously. For now, like moose, I'll wait and see what the district counsel determines.

I believe using those epithets does rise to bullying and abuse . Would we tolerate an academic teacher saying those things? A boss in a workplace? Epithets of race and ethnicity are verboten and wouldn't be tolerated. Use of all are creating a hostile environment and whether you are targeting someone who is actually gay is beside the point.

As I said, no, we shouldn't tolerate those words. I wouldn't expect a high school coach (or a boss) to be barred from using any epithets at all, however. There is a point, of course, where the yelling creates an unacceptably hostile environment or crosses the line into abuse. The parents who went to the board, and others in this discussion, feel it did, but I haven't read all the details they documented, witnessed varsity games or practices, or spoken to varsity players, so I can't say for myself. I'll await further investigation.

I'm sure every coach gets frustrated when their players miss a play, don't pay attention, or ignore their coaching. I think if they don't have the maturity and self control to react in a more productive and civil manner they shouldn't be coaching children.

DaveSchmidt said:

As I said, no, we shouldn't tolerate those words. I wouldn't expect a coach (or a boss) to be barred from using epithets in general, however..

This confuses me ? If we shouldn't tolerate those epithets than why should we not bar their use by coaches (or bosses)? What amount and type of verbal abuse is OK? And who makes that judgement?This is a school system and there needs to be policy in place covering this.

What is considered to be emotionally or verbally abusive coach behavior towards athletes?
A: Coaches and athletes constantly engage in verbal interactions. It is the coach’s responsibility to use such interactions for instructional and motivational purposes. Emotional or verbal abuse of athletes should be expressly prohibited.

Emotional or verbal abuse of athletes can take many forms such as: (1) when a coach excessively, in comparison to treatment of other athletes, singles out an athlete through negative interactions; (2) when a coach routinely uses profanity or degrading language; (3) when a coach personalizes error correction; (4) when a coach devalues a player’s role on the team, potential for success, or value as a person; (5) when a coach constantly blames the team or groups of players for failures; and (6) when a coach isolates a player by ignoring him or her. Coaches must make every effort to avoid such conduct. Coaches should immediately call a halt to any bullying or emotional verbal abuse undertaken by any athlete toward another while in the coach’s presence. Coaches should refrain from and disallow their athletes from engaging in verbal discourse that denigrates.

This is from a website safe4athletes.org

Some food for thought?

mod said:

This confuses me ? If we shouldn't tolerate those epithets than why should we not bar their use by coaches (or bosses)? What amount and type of verbal abuse is OK? And who makes that judgement?This is a school system and there needs to be policy in place covering this.

"Epithets of race and ethnicity": Verboten. Epithets like "Stop being f***ups out there and get your s*** together!": Not my style, but not language that by itself would distress me. (I know the complaints go beyond that.)

District and school administrators make the judgment, which I believe they are in the process of doing in this case.

mod said:

Some food for thought?

Yes.

DaveSchmidt said:

mod said:

This confuses me ? If we shouldn't tolerate those epithets than why should we not bar their use by coaches (or bosses)? What amount and type of verbal abuse is OK? And who makes that judgement?This is a school system and there needs to be policy in place covering this.

"Epithets of race and ethnicity": Verboten. Epithets like "Stop being f***ups out there and get your s*** together!": Not my style, but not language that by itself would distress me. (I know the complaints go beyond that.)

District and school administrators make the judgment, which I believe they are in the process of doing in this case.

mod said:

Some food for thought?

Yes.

Thanks for your response. I would put epithets such as "fags"and "pussies "in the verboten list as well, along with those like "retard".

mod said:

What is considered to be emotionally or verbally abusive coach behavior towards athletes?
A: Coaches and athletes constantly engage in verbal interactions. It is the coach’s responsibility to use such interactions for instructional and motivational purposes. Emotional or verbal abuse of athletes should be expressly prohibited.

Emotional or verbal abuse of athletes can take many forms such as: (1) when a coach excessively, in comparison to treatment of other athletes, singles out an athlete through negative interactions; (2) when a coach routinely uses profanity or degrading language; (3) when a coach personalizes error correction; (4) when a coach devalues a player’s role on the team, potential for success, or value as a person; (5) when a coach constantly blames the team or groups of players for failures; and (6) when a coach isolates a player by ignoring him or her. Coaches must make every effort to avoid such conduct. Coaches should immediately call a halt to any bullying or emotional verbal abuse undertaken by any athlete toward another while in the coach’s presence. Coaches should refrain from and disallow their athletes from engaging in verbal discourse that denigrates.

This is from a website safe4athletes.org

Some food for thought?

This is a good discussion starting point, but forthcoming standards will need to be much more specific. "Personalized error correction" can be something like, "Johnny, you have to catch the ball with two hands." An honest assessment saying that a young athlete just isn't good enough to crack the starting lineup can be interpreted as "devaluing a player's role on the team or potential for success."

I think nearly everyone would agree that epithets involving race, ethnicity, religion, sexual identity, or other degrading personal insults are out of bounds. Garden-variety profanity is trickier. Though I don't have personal knowledge of what occurred with the baseball coach, surely he's not the only CHS coach who uses four-letter words. Whatever standard we adopt must apply to those with dominant programs as well as those that finished 10-18.

If Mr. Smith is a history teacher and football coach, our culture permits him to tell Jimmy to get his f---ing head out of his a-- at 4:00, but not at 1:30. The normal rationalization for this is that football is a voluntary activity. We've come to a point where we need to codify what a student participating in athletics or any other extra-curricular activity can reasonably be expected to face. We also need to set standards and limits for parental involvement, and guidelines for coaches so that they can break bad news to players in a clear, but empathetic fashion.