Abuse Testimony, but BOE Reappoints CHS Coach Anyway!
yahooyahoo said:
IMHO, high school sports are about the following:
Teamwork
Friendship
Participation
Challenging oneself
Hard work and improvement
Leadership
Setting and achieving goals
Competition
Good sportsmanship
Success in terms of wins and losses is a by-product of the list above...
This is true of most winning teams and of military units with good morale.
For the military, I am not sure sportsmanship is high on the list. Bluntly, their job is to kill the enemy. Literally. No pats on the back for a good effort. Not like hockey where they shake hands after the game.
Jude said:
For the military, I am not sure sportsmanship is high on the list. Bluntly, their job is to kill the enemy. Literally. No pats on the back for a good effort. Not like hockey where they shake hands after the game.
I believe you are forgetting the Geneva Conventions and the Rules of War... (Not to say they've always been followed.)
There may be many commonalities between good soldiers and good athletes, and good teams and good military units, but war and national defense are not games. Thread drift, IMHO.
I stand by my comment that you will find much more in common between strong teams and strong military units. Obviously in war, winning is rather more important. Aside from that the commonality is there.
wendy said:
Snaggletooth said:
The thing that bothers me the most is that Fischetti's and Becht's defenders completely discount the experiences of the kids and parents who've had to deal with their crap. In short, if it's not their experience, it can't be true. Even after last week's debacle, some still refuse to accept others' reality.
Unfortunately, as their kids get older, they're closer to the line of fire. Hopefully, their experiences will be different. But I wouldn't bet on it.
Funny the thing that bothers me the most are blanket statements by anonymous posters using terms like "completely discount" and "still refuse to accept others' reality." Besides being wrong it is such a disrespectful way of addressing those with whom one disagrees.
Wendy Lauter
Go Cougars!
You seem to really like to hear yourself talk. My kid graduated last year and dealt with this crap for two years. There were four seniors on the team last year, so I'll leave it to you to figure out which one he was. Now, if your kid's experience at Columbia didn't suck, good for you. My son's did--in addition to the routine abuse coming from the dugout during games, Fischetti saw fit to trash him to umpires. I know that because one of those umpires told me. I wonder how you'd feel if that was your son. Maybe you would say your son deserved it? I would disagree. During his junior year, my kid also witnessed Fischetti blaming individual losses on one kid--and there were a lot of losses. That kid was told so frequently that he sucked and that losses were his fault, he was ready to quit and play lacrosse. His brother took him to lunch and he broke down in tears because he couldn't understand why Fischetti and Becht were treating him so badly. To be fair, you probably didn't know about that. But there seems to be a lot you don't know about this situation.
Mar 17, 2015 at 1:04pm Edited
You really like to attack people don't you? I'm surprised about two things you said above:
1) That your kid stuck it out (why the heck would I care to figure out who you are or your kid is?) for two years of abuse and
2) That your kid just stood by as the coach blamed individual losses on one kid. And if he didn't just stand by what did he and his teammates do to counter that and what did they do to support this one kid on their team?
I have said what my experience is. I never said I knew what others situation was. I know of Fischetti as my son's freshman coach and elementary PE teacher and I know of the AD and Becht as his two coaches for his two years on Varsity.
Wendy Lauter
1) That your kid stuck it out (why the heck would I care to figure out who you are or your kid is?) for two years of abuse and
2) That your kid just stood by as the coach blamed individual losses on one kid. And if he didn't just stand by what did he and his teammates do to counter that and what did they do to support this one kid on their team?
I have said what my experience is. I never said I knew what others situation was. I know of Fischetti as my son's freshman coach and elementary PE teacher and I know of the AD and Becht as his two coaches for his two years on Varsity.
Wendy Lauter
More words, and with nothing to say. I don't believe I addressed anything you said, until you came after me. You don't like it, mind your own business. If you can.
Snaggletooth said:
More words, and with nothing to say. I don't believe I addressed anything you said, until you came after me. You don't like it, mind your own business. If you can.
Reported. You really don't know how to argue correctly on a message board. Perhaps you'll learn. Or get banned. Sheesh.
You've come on here and tried to cast doubt on everything these kids have had to deal with over the last two years. And you've done it based on your kid's freshman experience with Fischetti.
When Fischetti was the freshman coach, parents told their kids just ignore him, it's only for a year. But now that he's the varsity coach, there's no escaping him, not if you want to play baseball for Columbia.
There were 20 kids who played baseball in my son's freshman class. Only four stuck it out till their senior year. That's a pretty high attrition rate, and it's not because kids can't play. They quit, refuse to even try out or turn to other sports, and the CHS baseball program is dying because of it. Columbia has some 2,000 kids. They had 32 try out this year for jv and varsity. BTW, athletes not trying out or switching sports is reflected in Columbia's record: They were 10-18 last year, about the same as 2013.
They even had to drop a division, because it's been so long since they've been competitive. So it made me laugh at the board meeting when people were talking about the "Columbia Baseball Brand."
Unfortunately, Busichio has decided it's more important to protect his buddies than the kids in the program. That's wrong. Something needs to change. And it may happen sooner than you or anyone else here thinks.
Thank you and good night.
When Fischetti was the freshman coach, parents told their kids just ignore him, it's only for a year. But now that he's the varsity coach, there's no escaping him, not if you want to play baseball for Columbia.
There were 20 kids who played baseball in my son's freshman class. Only four stuck it out till their senior year. That's a pretty high attrition rate, and it's not because kids can't play. They quit, refuse to even try out or turn to other sports, and the CHS baseball program is dying because of it. Columbia has some 2,000 kids. They had 32 try out this year for jv and varsity. BTW, athletes not trying out or switching sports is reflected in Columbia's record: They were 10-18 last year, about the same as 2013.
They even had to drop a division, because it's been so long since they've been competitive. So it made me laugh at the board meeting when people were talking about the "Columbia Baseball Brand."
Unfortunately, Busichio has decided it's more important to protect his buddies than the kids in the program. That's wrong. Something needs to change. And it may happen sooner than you or anyone else here thinks.
Thank you and good night.
These are good points that say a lot about the program. I can understand parents saying to ignore the behavior because it is just the one year. Only to find out that Fischetti has been given the head Varisty position the following year. I don't have any children who play baseball, but I do know of many kids who walked away from the sport they loved to play because of the treatment of the coaches. It has happened in other sports besides baseball. If you take a close look at baseball and softball, they both have the same situations. Kids don't return because of coaches. Freshmen classes are usually the biggest to try out and then it dwindles once they see how kids are treated and spoken to. I hope that the administration will take a close look at what is expected and accepted. It is a shame that it has gotten to this and that young men who wanted to play a sport they love have had to give it up for the wrong reasons. The AD has clearly protected these coaches and I hope that will not continue. The lesson these young men have had to learn from people who are supposed to teach and mentor them is that you can do and say what you want and there is no accountability. I commend the families that spoke up.
Snaggletooth said:
In short, if it's not their experience, it can't be true.
I think we see this in some academic encounters as well.
The Administration needs to set expectations for coaches (and parents and players). It shouldn't be that hard. YahooYahoo makes very good points below and many schools have managed to set good policies. The AD needs to evaluate coaches with respect to these expectations.
Bully-coaching is not acceptable. Humiliation of kids is not acceptable. Coaches who do this and refuse to reform their ways need to be fired. When an adult bullies a kid it is an indication that the adult has problems of his/her own and perhaps shouldn't be around kids.
Complaints need to be addressed promptly and impartially. If a coach accumulates too many complaints action should be taken.
Testimony about how great a coach is needs to be discounted because if a coach treats 97% of the players well and bullies the remainder, he is a bully coach. Bullying trumps any number of good attributes.
"Old-school" coaching is no longer acceptable and it never was a good method.
Bully-coaching is not acceptable. Humiliation of kids is not acceptable. Coaches who do this and refuse to reform their ways need to be fired. When an adult bullies a kid it is an indication that the adult has problems of his/her own and perhaps shouldn't be around kids.
Complaints need to be addressed promptly and impartially. If a coach accumulates too many complaints action should be taken.
Testimony about how great a coach is needs to be discounted because if a coach treats 97% of the players well and bullies the remainder, he is a bully coach. Bullying trumps any number of good attributes.
"Old-school" coaching is no longer acceptable and it never was a good method.
yahooyahoo said:
IMHO, high school sports are about the following:
Teamwork
Friendship
Participation
Challenging oneself
Hard work and improvement
Leadership
Setting and achieving goals
Competition
Good sportsmanship
Success in terms of wins and losses is a by-product of the list above, not the other way around. Not everyone gets equal playing time or makes every team. But the be-all and end-all of high school sports is not winning championships.
Chamers, Mamabear, Hank et al. -
Slur test -
Other choice words will get you a punch in the nose - but not the G word.
Hank, I need you to thank me for clearing that up for you.
Go Sox.
Slur test -
Other choice words will get you a punch in the nose - but not the G word.
Hank, I need you to thank me for clearing that up for you.
Go Sox.
Which spring sports team trashed the equipment (damaging a laptop in the process) of another spring sports team?
One of the teams would be the baseball team, big surprise.
Guess which one?
Guess which one?
Was it boys being boys (that is to say, roughhousing and causing collateral damage) who need to be helld accountable? Or was it intentional vandalism which your initial post certainly doesn't rule out?
I wasn't there and don't know where the line is between rough housing and vandalism, but equipment and a computer were damaged. Let's just say it is embarrassing at a time when the program does not need embarrassment or attention drawn to itself.
since you say you weren't there and don't know what may have happened (nor do I know if anything like what you are suggesting actually happened at all) please stop trashing the baseball team or use your actual name when you make accusations. I think a few of you just like seeing the heading of this conversation show up on the MOL recent discussions list. Time for you to move on.
There's a baseball scrimmage today at Underhill. The boys are excited to finally get onto their field after all the snow. Come support the team or don't but stop looking for reasons to the trash the program on a public forum.
There's a baseball scrimmage today at Underhill. The boys are excited to finally get onto their field after all the snow. Come support the team or don't but stop looking for reasons to the trash the program on a public forum.
Mar 25, 2015 at 3:56am Edited
lisa_Nolet said:
since you say you weren't there and don't know what may have happened (nor do I know if anything like what you are suggesting actually happened at all) please stop trashing the baseball team or use your actual name when you make accusations. I think a few of you just like seeing the heading of this conversation show up on the MOL recent discussions list. Time for you to move on.
There's a baseball scrimmage today at Underhill. The boys are excited to finally get onto their field after all the snow. Come support the team or don't but stop looking for reasons to the trash the program on a public forum.
Well said Lisa.
Wendy Lauter
edited to add:
Go Cougars on all teams and clubs!
tjohn said:
Was it boys being boys (that is to say, roughhousing and causing collateral damage) who need to be helld accountable? Or was it intentional vandalism which your initial post certainly doesn't rule out?
Boys on both teams being boys -- territorial and none too gentle in clearing space for themselves -- upon discovering that they have to share a locker room during practices.
DaveSchmidt said:
tjohn said:
Was it boys being boys (that is to say, roughhousing and causing collateral damage) who need to be helld accountable? Or was it intentional vandalism which your initial post certainly doesn't rule out?
Boys on both teams being boys -- territorial and none too gentle in clearing space for themselves -- upon discovering that they have to share a locker room during practices.
The answer is simple. Outside. Grass drills until vomiting. Problem solved.
tjohn said:
DaveSchmidt said:
tjohn said:
Was it boys being boys (that is to say, roughhousing and causing collateral damage) who need to be helld accountable? Or was it intentional vandalism which your initial post certainly doesn't rule out?
Boys on both teams being boys -- territorial and none too gentle in clearing space for themselves -- upon discovering that they have to share a locker room during practices.
The answer is simple. Outside. Grass drills until vomiting. Problem solved.
But what if some of the parents think that's bullying??
mammabear said:
But what if some of the parents think that's bullying??
I can't speak for those parents, but since you're taking this topic seriously, I can only assume this is an honest question and not an attempt to make light of complaints.
mammabear said:
tjohn said:
DaveSchmidt said:
tjohn said:
Was it boys being boys (that is to say, roughhousing and causing collateral damage) who need to be helld accountable? Or was it intentional vandalism which your initial post certainly doesn't rule out?
Boys on both teams being boys -- territorial and none too gentle in clearing space for themselves -- upon discovering that they have to share a locker room during practices.
The answer is simple. Outside. Grass drills until vomiting. Problem solved.
But what if some of the parents think that's bullying??
That's an interesting question actually. Defining bullying is like defining art or pornography - everybody you talk to will tell you something different. I went through basic training in the Army but don't feel as though I was bullied. A good coach is going to be consistent and fair and won't single kids out for special treatment. On the other hand, a good coach will make the kids work hard, will make them do things they may not want to do and will very likely use some colorful language. I think the district can and should establish a code of conduct with regard to bullying and I think that some parents will still be unhappy.
In general, a problem with defining bullying is that those who are bullies (and that includes students/athletes, coaches and parents too who can be bullies) don't necessarily see themselves as such...and there may be instances too when those who benefited by or were not targeted by bullying behavior and said nothing only speak up when it impacts them or their children. Perhaps they actually failed to see it as bullying because they (or their children) were not the targets...or they failed to speak up about it at the time because they (or their children) weren't targets. There is a difference between tough and unfair/abusive...and it usually isn't that difficult to discern, if people choose to.
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Well, I for one respectfully disagree with this characterization.