Abuse Testimony, but BOE Reappoints CHS Coach Anyway!
tjohn said:
It doesn't seem helpful in any way to have this end up on the news. News reports like this are often not exactly thoroughly vetted and researched.
Agreed. Further, it sure looks like an "ambush" piece, since they didn't go to the Principal, the Board, the AD, even though those would be the most informed (and presumably least biased) sources for information...
This is starting to feel a little more like retribution and a little less like trying to make the program better, IMHO.
That said, of course if the allegations are true, then changes need to be made.
tjohn said:
It doesn't seem helpful in any way to have this end up on the news. News reports like this are often not exactly thoroughly vetted and researched.
Sadly, too often in this day and age, news reporting accuracy and vetting takes a backseat to getting the audience engaged, getting those ratings up.
That report was garbage, non investigative, non news, tripe. How CBS news sees fit that this would even make it onto our TV's is where I suspect theres something other than news editing going on.
Whether or not the baseball coaches are so-called bullies or intimidators or just all-around bad guys doesnt rise to the level or a news "investigation".
To be clear, there is no place in sports for coaches to berate and pick on lessor players on their teams, to have whipping boys who serve as examples so the coaches can intimidate their players to demonstrate their power.
I feel embarrassed for those kids and seriously question the parents motivation to participate in that instigative report.
Did you watch the piece?
They sought comment from the school and got a prepared answer. The coach backed his car out of the driveway rather than comment.
uncleb said:
tjohn said:Agreed. Further, it sure looks like an "ambush" piece, since they didn't go to the Principal, the Board, the AD, even though those would be the most informed (and presumably least biased) sources for information...
It doesn't seem helpful in any way to have this end up on the news. News reports like this are often not exactly thoroughly vetted and researched.
This is starting to feel a little more like retribution and a little less like trying to make the program better, IMHO.
That said, of course if the allegations are true, then changes need to be made.
If you are the target of an "investigative journalism" ambush, the last thing you should do is speak to your ambushers. You can be a pure as the wind-driven snow and there is nothing but downside to speaking.
The school district, of course, cannot possibly comment on personnel matters.
I watched the piece last night expecting to see a smoking gun, but instead just ended up confused; there was nothing shocking about the videos they showed (I'd drive away from those vulture "reporters" too if I was the target of their "investigation"), and even the kids/parents came off badly IMHO. Maybe there's really a problem there, and as a parent of a rec ball player who might want to play HS ball one day I'd fully support removal of any truly abusive coach, but that piece did nothing to convince me that this is the case.
It's truly shocking to me that CBS saw fit to air this.
This was not an exemplary piece of journalism. The coach uses an equine profanity on the video, but the two short clips don't seem outside the bounds of normal high-school coach conduct. I know much worse has been alleged, and the reporter alludes to that. However, it would have better to investigate those situations and report on them than to show the clips while saying "this is just the tip of the iceberg" without really getting to the iceberg. The time would have been better spent focusing more on the disturbing allegation by one student that a coach detained him somewhere against his will.
The school likely is limited to the canned response for legal reasons. I'm not sure if the coach is under the same stricture or if he just felt he was in a no-win spot where defending himself might have been taken as further criticism of the complaining students. Several players and families have defended the coaches here and in other places. It would not have been difficult to locate one of them for the other side.
chalmers said:
Several players and families have defended the coaches here and in other places. It would not have been difficult to locate one of them for the other side.
Comments in favor of a coach are irrelevant. All that is relevant is a proper investigation of complaints by the school district's anti-bullying attorney. Either they happened or they didn't happen. Now, obviously it can be nuanced because some kids more or less tune out things coaches say and others take them to heart.
tjohn said:
chalmers said:Comments in favor of a coach are irrelevant. All that is relevant is a proper investigation of complaints by the school district's anti-bullying attorney. Either they happened or they didn't happen. Now, obviously it can be nuanced because some kids more or less tune out things coaches say and others take them to heart.
Several players and families have defended the coaches here and in other places. It would not have been difficult to locate one of them for the other side.
From an employment discipline perspective, you're right. If a coach behaved improperly toward four (or even one) players, it's irrelevant if everyone else on the team disagrees and loves the guy. However, from a journalism/reputation perspective, it is relevant and noteworthy that there are families who disagree with the (only) voices heard in the story. No one watching that report alone would have any idea that those other voices exist.
Not the strongest piece of journalism in the land, but:
Raise your hand if you think it is okay for two grown men to prevent a teenager from leaving a room while they berate him.
Roland said:
Not the strongest piece of journalism in the land, but:
Raise your hand if you think it is okay for two grown men to prevent a teenager from leaving a room while they berate him.
That is an example of the type of incident that needs to be reported to the school district's anti-bullying attorney when it happens. And, my impression is that you would be well-advised to bring your own attorney. It is expensive, but a decent attorney can help you tell the different between what you think should be done in response to an incident and what can be done.
If this incident occurred as described, I don't see how it can be justified.
My guess is that locals used connections to NYC media to get the story on TV.
The situation is turning into a PR battle which typically doesn't work out well for either side.
amandacat said:
I watched the piece last night expecting to see a smoking gun, but instead just ended up confused; there was nothing shocking about the videos they showed (I'd drive away from those vulture "reporters" too if I was the target of their "investigation"), and even the kids/parents came off badly IMHO. Maybe there's really a problem there, and as a parent of a rec ball player who might want to play HS ball one day I'd fully support removal of any truly abusive coach, but that piece did nothing to convince me that this is the case.
It's truly shocking to me that CBS saw fit to air this.
All I know is what I learned in the broadcast. The father said that they brought a complaint and the district found that there had been harassment, intimidation, or bullying.
tjohn said:
Roland said:That is an example of the type of incident that needs to be reported to the school district's anti-bullying attorney when it happens. And, my impression is that you would be well-advised to bring your own attorney. It is expensive, but a decent attorney can help you tell the different between what you think should be done in response to an incident and what can be done.
Not the strongest piece of journalism in the land, but:
Raise your hand if you think it is okay for two grown men to prevent a teenager from leaving a room while they berate him.
If this incident occurred as described, I don't see how it can be justified.
We only know one side of the story. And we don't know if the Administration has taken any steps to address the issue. Sometimes, these things end up being confidential HR matters and we only hear one side of the story.
This "ambush" style of journalism isn't exactly Pulitzer Prize material.
chalmers said:
From an employment discipline perspective, you're right. If a coach behaved improperly toward four (or even one) players, it's irrelevant if everyone else on the team disagrees and loves the guy. However, from a journalism/reputation perspective, it is relevant and noteworthy that there are families who disagree with the (only) voices heard in the story. No one watching that report alone would have any idea that those other voices exist.
That is why this is poor journalism. The journalist ensured only one side was presented.
Roland said:
All I know is what I learned in the broadcast. The father said that they brought a complaint and the district found that there had been harassment, intimidation, or bullying.
One would think that if the district really found harassment, intimidation and bullying, action would have been taken such as removal or suspension of the coach.
chalmers said:
This was not an exemplary piece of journalism. The coach uses an equine profanity on the video, but the two short clips don't seem outside the bounds of normal high-school coach conduct. I know much worse has been alleged, and the reporter alludes to that. However, it would have better to investigate those situations and report on them than to show the clips while saying "this is just the tip of the iceberg" without really getting to the iceberg. The time would have been better spent focusing more on the disturbing allegation by one student that a coach detained him somewhere against his will.
The school likely is limited to the canned response for legal reasons. I'm not sure if the coach is under the same stricture or if he just felt he was in a no-win spot where defending himself might have been taken as further criticism of the complaining students. Several players and families have defended the coaches here and in other places. It would not have been difficult to locate one of them for the other side.
hoops said:
That report was garbage, non investigative, non news, tripe. How CBS news sees fit that this would even make it onto our TV's is where I suspect theres something other than news editing going on.
Whether or not the baseball coaches are so-called bullies or intimidators or just all-around bad guys doesnt rise to the level or a news "investigation".
To be clear, there is no place in sports for coaches to berate and pick on lessor players on their teams, to have whipping boys who serve as examples so the coaches can intimidate their players to demonstrate their power.
I feel embarrassed for those kids and seriously question the parents motivation to participate in that instigative report.
My 12 year old was very excited to show me that CBS story which made it even more disturbing. No details or evidence or even anything interesting in the story. He kicked him off the team and ruined his plans? An interview with a few kids offering very little and one who has a dad who happens to be a bullying counselor. Hmmm. And then the cameras ambushing the coach. Maybe there is more to the story than that but what garbage and how unfair to the coach.
This "story" has legs because the administration did not seriously address the initial complaints; a group of kids and their parents feel as if they were misled and dismissed. They are pissed.
I get privacy rights, etc., but it is odd to have private adjudication of alleged behavior that occurred in public by an authority figure.
If somebody in the administration simply say publicly "mistakes were made; they won't happen again." this would disappear. Instead, the administration hides behind vague public statements that only a lawyer could love.
You can hate on CBS and the parents all you want but you really need to look at the conduct of the administration, too. Not that they don't have bigger things to worry about at the moment.
My kid had this coach as his gym teacher in middle school this quarter. He says that recently he has been replaced by a different teacher.
Edited to remove speculation.
The coach was at practice just this week.
(Thank you for the edit, dg64.)
While I'm here ...
Roland said:
Not the strongest piece of journalism in the land
Roland said:
All I know is what I learned in the broadcast.
"Not the strongest piece of journalism," but "all I know is what I learned" from it. Might not be the best foundation from which to reach conclusions.
I tend to believe a father on-camera's declaration that the administration found HIB after the coaches blocked his son from leaving a room. That's how I roll.
Roland said:
I tend to believe a father on-camera's declaration that the administration found HIB after the coaches blocked his son from leaving a room. That's how I roll.
I assume this father consulted with a lawyer before he did this piece to make sure that he is not exposed to some sort of libel suit.
You can criticize the piece all you want, but not for libel. There was nothing remotely closely to libelous in it. Coaches are almost certainly what are known as limited purpose public figures. So long as public comments are directed to their actions as coaches, reckless disregard of the truth is the standard to prove libel, and that ain't easy.
Roland said:
You can criticize the piece all you want, but not for libel. There was nothing remotely closely to libelous in it. Coaches are almost certainly what are known as limited purpose public figures. So long as public comments are directed to their actions as coaches, reckless disregard of the truth is the standard to prove libel, and that ain't easy.
Interesting. Are teachers also limited purpose public figures?
That's an interesting question. I am not a lawyer, so I will let others decide. But I feel fairly confident that a HS coach, who has volunteered to participate in a public venue, would fit the bill. Teachers are a little different because the classroom is not public.
Totally agree!