Klinker said:
conandrob240 said:
I’m sorry for what happened to you but I think you are way off base with some of this. First of all, you need to always travel with trip insurance especially on a cruise. Medical evacuation alone could ruin your finances forever if no insurance. Second, I don’t think most people think a cruise has full medical services. How could it? They are sort of like a basic walk in clinic- they can’t treat anything serious. Third, a cruise ship of 4000 people can’t wait for one injured person. It’s ridiculous to think they can do anything but put you off the ship if you are in need of extensive medical treatment. Fourth, you could have and should have controlled your own medical care better. You were in a third world country. Your options could have also included getting the next flight back to the US to be treated. Don’t let people herd you like cattle- take control. Since it wasn’t life threatening, there’s no way I would have had a procedure or surgery like that in Jamaica. Fly home. Jamaica has been under increased travel warnings lately and military stops of vehicles are very common there.
Last- use a TA! If you didn’t know about much of the above, a good TA would have helped you through this ordeal and made you aware of some of this ahead of time)Conandrob hits the nail on the head. The cruise company is a transportation provider, not your social worker. I would be interested in knowing exactly what the OP thinks the cruise company should have done differently.
I do not disagree with either of you. However, can we keep in mind that the OP's husband had died only a few months earlier? I was actually impressed that she was willing to take a trip on her own at that time.
Having said that, I've never cruied and never will.
cubby said:
I do not disagree with either of you. However, can we keep in mind that the OP's husband had died only a few months earlier? I was actually impressed that she was willing to take a trip on her own at that time.
Having said that, I've never cruied and never will.
Point to ponder. I had kind of forgotten about that conversation we had 6 months ago.
Another cruising factoid — the rationale for starting this thread — travelers must be aware that a passenger can be made to leave the ship for any illness or injury which the ship’s medical unit cannot manage. This debarkation will be at the nearest scheduled port.
mtierney said:
Another cruising factoid — the rationale for starting this thread — travelers must be aware that a passenger can be made to leave the ship for any illness or injury which the ship’s medical unit cannot manage. This debarkation will be at the nearest scheduled port.
A good point that I think a lot of people around the world are finding out the hard way.
Klinker said:
The Guardian: Coronavirus: Royal Caribbean bans all Chinese nationals from its cruise ships
This seems pretty straight up racist. How is Bob from Atlanta, who hasn't traveled outside the US in 10 years but happens to have been born in China anymore likely to infect his fellow passengers?
Meanwhile I can just show my passport and not tell them I've lived in Hong Kong for quite some time.
Today marks the one year anniversary of my unplanned stay in Jamaica! A brief, but memorable stay.
Despite my terrible experience just a year ago, I still think it is/was a great way to travel. If anything “sinks” cruising, IMO, it will be the cruise industry’s building massive Disney Worlds on the sea. The industry has greedily opted to create one size fits all boats.
My husband and I sailed away to foreign destinations all over the world because cruising got us there in comfort — notwithstanding the occasional storm at sea! In hindsight, our most memorable trips were aboard boats carrying under 2500 passengers— with the approximate number of crew.
So, last February, newly widowed, I selected a trip my husband and I had had on our bucket list — two weeks in winter in sunshine and on warm waters, sailing out of NYC. No need for the hassle of flying to a port in Florida. I remember telling family and friends who were worried about my solo journey, that I would probably not even get off the ship! My first mistake, not keeping to the plan; second was going on a massive new ship.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/business/coronavirus-japan-cruise-ship.html
drummerboy said:
I used to look down on cruises, until I took one. They're fun. It's just a all-inclusive resort on the water, plus you get to visit different places.
Not sure why anyone finds them objectionable.
I see plenty of advantages to cruises, although I have only been on one and it was a river cruise not an ocean cruise. BUT, one big disadvantage I have observed during my non-cruise travels to destinations visited by cruise lines is that often the cruise companies shut out the local population from serving the cruise passengers and, instead, it is the cruise lines who arrange and profit from the excursions AND the cruise passengers miss out on some wonderful local opportunities in the ports of call they visit (and are usually significantly overcharged for their excursions as compared to the pricing outside of the cruise-line-owned vendors.) I would be more interested in cruises if they would show commitment and involvement with the local population and economies of the countries they visit.
sac said:
I see plenty of advantages to cruises, although I have only been on one and it was a river cruise not an ocean cruise. BUT, one big disadvantage I have observed during my non-cruise travels to destinations visited by cruise lines is that often the cruise companies shut out the local population from serving the cruise passengers and, instead, it is the cruise lines who arrange and profit from the excursions AND the cruise passengers miss out on some wonderful local opportunities in the ports of call they visit (and are usually significantly overcharged for their excursions as compared to the pricing outside of the cruise-line-owned vendors.) I would be more interested in cruises if they would show commitment and involvement with the local population and economies of the countries they visit.
It would be wonderful, but there is positive reality in sticking with ship sponsored excursions, especially when the travel involved takes passengers good distances from the port. The ship waits for ship excursions if they are running late. Not so with independent local groups.
It is much easier when the port’s town/city is an easy walk from the ship. Shopping is fun and you can walk back to the ship whenever you want.
We broke that conviction in St Petersburg, choosing a two day Russian guided tour. We had three other couples to share the minivan (arrangements had been made weeks earlier via a cruise blog). The ship’s excursion buses travel with maybe 40 people. Ever see 40 people waiting for food or toilets — or admission to Katherine’s Palace, etc? Our fluent Russian speaking guide avoided crowds and traffic issues. As far as expenses, the ship charged more for St Petersburg, than we paid privately.
But, as in any venture, bad things can and do happen.
mtierney said:
Despite my terrible experience just a year ago, I still think it is/was a great way to travel. If anything “sinks” cruising, IMO, it will be the cruise industry’s building massive Disney Worlds on the sea. The industry has greedily opted to create one size fits all boats.
Any thought on the decision by various cruise lines to bar passengers holding Chinese passports, regardless of where they actually live?
To me, this smacked of racism but I know you often see things..... differently.
mtierney said:
sac said:
I see plenty of advantages to cruises, although I have only been on one and it was a river cruise not an ocean cruise. BUT, one big disadvantage I have observed during my non-cruise travels to destinations visited by cruise lines is that often the cruise companies shut out the local population from serving the cruise passengers and, instead, it is the cruise lines who arrange and profit from the excursions AND the cruise passengers miss out on some wonderful local opportunities in the ports of call they visit (and are usually significantly overcharged for their excursions as compared to the pricing outside of the cruise-line-owned vendors.) I would be more interested in cruises if they would show commitment and involvement with the local population and economies of the countries they visit.
It would be wonderful, but there is positive reality in sticking with ship sponsored excursions, especially when the travel involved takes passengers good distances from the port. The ship waits for ship excursions if they are running late. Not so with independent local groups.
It is much easier when the port’s town/city is an easy walk from the ship. Shopping is fun and you can walk back to the ship whenever you want.
We broke that conviction in St Petersburg, choosing a two day Russian guided tour. We had three other couples to share the minivan (arrangements had been made weeks earlier via a cruise blog). The ship’s excursion buses travel with maybe 40 people. Ever see 40 people waiting for food or toilets — or admission to Katherine’s Palace, etc? Our fluent Russian speaking guide avoided crowds and traffic issues. As far as expenses, the ship charged more for St Petersburg, than we paid privately.
But, as in any venture, bad things can and do happen.
The cruise line could contract with the local operators if they chose to, and offer those same advantages, but it appears that they choose to make more money by handling it themselves.
I just returned yesterday from two chartered speciality cruises on an NCL ship departing from Miami and stopping at various Caribbean destinations.
For the first cruise, boarding on 1/29, they had us fill out forms asking if we had been to China and when/where. For the second cruise, boarding on 2/3, we were informed that if we had been in China in the previous 30 days we would not be allowed to board and our tickets would be fully refunded. There were no questions of citizenship or place of residency on the form, but I have no idea if anything further was taking place at passport control.
They had extreme food-handling measures in place for the last few days of the first cruise and the first few days of the second cruise - no self-service, not even beverages, and no condiments on the tables, just packets of salt, etc., that were handed directly to you by a staff member. They resumed to normal self-service eventually. I heard it was the only time NCL has ever gone to such restrictive measures fleet-wide instead of just on a specific ship.
(Part 2) When I went on shore, I was glad I knew of mtierney's experiences so I would be better prepared in case something happened.
That being said, I learned that Caribbean cruise ship ports are the most revolting places on earth - several blocks of gated Disneyesque shops selling luxury watches and emeralds surrounded by squalor. My cruises were music cruises where the action was on-board, so I wasn't especially interested in the ports. I will probably skip the shore visits in the future except maybe to smuggle cheap Diet Coke back on board.
(@dave, if you're still reading, my sister and her husband are still living in Hong Kong with a trip back to the U.S. previously scheduled for later this month. Interesting to see if they'll be allowed to enter.)
I began this thread for my own healing and to alert others. I am happy that it did that for you!
kthnry said:
(@dave, if you're still reading, my sister and her husband are still living in Hong Kong with a trip back to the U.S. previously scheduled for later this month. Interesting to see if they'll be allowed to enter.)
There was an article about this in today's Times.
NYT: Experts Worry as a Germ-Phobic Trump Confronts a Growing Epidemic
There is speculation based on Trump's tantrums during the Ebola scare that the President may massively over react to the perceived threat with implications for human and civil rights. It is unfortunate that this potential pandemic has erupted in a moment of unprecedented weakness for the United States.
Melech Ric and I were supposed to be on the current cruise of Anthem of the Seas, the ship that was held in Bayonne for a few days. We had cancelled 10 days ago, due to a minor medical issue that was taking too long to resolve. I'm glad we did, because the shortened length of time meant that they rerouted it to Bermuda, which is too damn cold in February, compared to the Caribbean.
We're booked on a cruise on Norwegian in 3 weeks. Friends of ours, first-time cruisers, are supposed to go with us, but their family members are pressuring them to cancel. I have no qualms about going. Norovirus is always a concern, but when we were on Anthem 2 years ago, there was an outbreak. The crew moved heaven and earth to contain it, and I thanked them for it as often as I could. While it put a bit of a crimp into the atmosphere on-board, we were fine and still had a great time.
Regarding shore excursions: They usually suck and are overpriced. For my purposes, a cruise ship is a giant floating resort. I go to eat healthy food, lose weight, and dance my a$$ off every night, right until the music stops. As many of you know, I'm disabled and used a cane or arm crutches for more than 25 years. Last year, on a 14 day cruise, I racked up 330,000 steps, most of it dancing, and i had a blast! I plan to do the same in March.
metaphysician said:
As many of you know, I'm disabled and used a cane or arm crutches for more than 25 years. Last year, on a 14 day cruise, I racked up 330,000 steps, most of it dancing, and i had a blast! I plan to do the same in March.
Hey meta! The two cruises I just went on were floating music festivals with multiple overlapping performances for 14 hours a day. I was impressed at how many attendees were in wheelchairs, had major mobility issues, or were just old and/or slow. A lot of those folks couldn't possible attend a conventional land-based music festival where you're either camping out in the country or running between venues in a city. But on a cruise ship, everything is convenient and accessible for everyone and they were having a blast. It was a real eye-opener for me.
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I've taken many shore excursions from river cruises and ocean cruises and been generally very pleased. It depends what you're looking for and what you sign up for. As far as being overpriced, compared to what? Of course you can do your own walking tour of a particular city for free, but an experienced and knowledgeable guide adds quite a lot.
Klinker said:
kthnry said:
(@dave, if you're still reading, my sister and her husband are still living in Hong Kong with a trip back to the U.S. previously scheduled for later this month. Interesting to see if they'll be allowed to enter.)There was an article about this in today's Times.
NYT: Experts Worry as a Germ-Phobic Trump Confronts a Growing Epidemic
There is speculation based on Trump's tantrums during the Ebola scare that the President may massively over react to the perceived threat with implications for human and civil rights. It is unfortunate that this potential pandemic has erupted in a moment of unprecedented weakness for the United States.
Trump completely overreacted during the Ebola outbreak. A lot of racist and xenophobic undertones to his statements and tweets and they were completely ignorant also.
So, my sister had booked a short cruise ages ago with childhood friends of my BIL. The friends have come out from the States (they’re American), been here just over a week and tomorrow the four of them board Celebrity Cruises’ Solstice heading for NZ. Fly back home from Auckland in 12 days.
Honestly, the biggest worry for us is that my sister will somehow fall and break something - in the last decade, every holiday, she seems to injure herself. But she’s cruised several times before, including from here to UK (in her 20s); we’ve talked, and she’ll hold the ropes, do her exercises.
Her friends are doctors, BIL is a pharmacist and she was a medical researcher then bio-med librarian. They know how to be safe, they know how to understand the information coming out. It’s a huge decision, but it’s 11 days, it’s to NZ ...
Let’s hope it’s all smooth sailing!
joanne said:
So, my sister had booked a short cruise ages ago with childhood friends of my BIL. The friends have come out from the States (they’re American), been here just over a week and tomorrow the four of them board Celebrity Cruises’ Solstice heading for NZ. Fly back home from Auckland in 12 days.
Honestly, the biggest worry for us is that my sister will somehow fall and break something - in the last decade, every holiday, she seems to injure herself. But she’s cruised several times before, including from here to UK (in her 20s); we’ve talked, and she’ll hold the ropes, do her exercises.
Her friends are doctors, BIL is a pharmacist and she was a medical researcher then bio-med librarian. They know how to be safe, they know how to understand the information coming out. It’s a huge decision, but it’s 11 days, it’s to NZ ...Let’s hope it’s all smooth sailing!
I have reasons to hope that my constant kvetching about involuntary disembarkation from a cruise ship may have some positive results. I have been very “vocal” alerting cruise fans of this not-to-be-mentioned reality in cruise brochures —various social media, FB, etc. CruiseCritics (on my list) yesterday alerted folks to check the fine print. Of course, now the main concern is virus contamination.
In other comments here, I have stated that greed made cruise lines build bigger and bigger ships, and floating Disney worlds. Catching something on a plane, carrying perhaps 300 people in very close proximity for let’s say 14 hours, is a Petri dish. Put 4000 people on a boat for 14 days, is a nightmare.
The fine print...
Yep. They’ve checked all that Weren’t really in a position to cancel anyway - and there aren’t any ports between NZ and Australia, so really the flights home (which is their cost anyway) is the only variable. If they fall victim to the dreaded bug, given Australia’s on Emergency footing, they might not be let in or might be whisked to not-luxury med camps.
They’ve thought it all through, in several languages. She’s promised not to die before her birthday in April
Safe to say, I believe buffets and salad bars will soon be discontinued on land and sea!
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/world/asia/coronavirus-cruise-ship.html
Personally, I reckon buffets should be discontinued outside your own family circle (and even then you really need to be sure you trust everyone). There are just way too many variables to ensure complete public health and safety all the time; it's pure luck more people don't become ill from dining at a public buffet.
joanne said:
Personally, I reckon buffets should be discontinued outside your own family circle (and even then you really need to be sure you trust everyone). There are just way too many variables to ensure complete public health and safety all the time; it's pure luck more people don't become ill from dining at a public buffet.
So true! Don’t think I’ll be standing online for buffets even after this virus is gone. The potential for cross contamination is through the roof.
I believe I stole this cartoon from a man in Australia!
Booking a cruise right now is an awesome deal. Buy one week, get two weeks free
joanne said:
So, my sister had booked a short cruise ages ago with childhood friends of my BIL. The friends have come out from the States (they’re American), been here just over a week and tomorrow the four of them board Celebrity Cruises’ Solstice heading for NZ. Fly back home from Auckland in 12 days.
Honestly, the biggest worry for us is that my sister will somehow fall and break something - in the last decade, every holiday, she seems to injure herself. But she’s cruised several times before, including from here to UK (in her 20s); we’ve talked, and she’ll hold the ropes, do her exercises.
Her friends are doctors, BIL is a pharmacist and she was a medical researcher then bio-med librarian. They know how to be safe, they know how to understand the information coming out. It’s a huge decision, but it’s 11 days, it’s to NZ ...Let’s hope it’s all smooth sailing!
I doesn't matter who you are, pharmacist, doctor, renowned virologist. If the virus is found during the cruise they may be stuck for days even weeks while ports refuse to dock or offload the ship.
I would be interested to see a study done on how many cruise passengers come down with ordinary, run of the mill illnesses after taking a cruise. It would also be fascinating to see that figure for people who fly and then compare both numbers to people from the same demographic backgrounds who just sat at home.
Well, I’ve just checked with her: she’s due back tomorrow. So far no falls. No-one’s seasick (at least in their party; she hasn’t reported on anyone else but the seas seemed relatively OK), and no word about any other illnesses. So it’s all good between Melbourne, Australia and Auckland, NZ.
The Guardian: Coronavirus: Royal Caribbean bans all Chinese nationals from its cruise ships
This seems pretty straight up racist. How is Bob from Atlanta, who hasn't traveled outside the US in 10 years but happens to have been born in China anymore likely to infect his fellow passengers?