Bernie's 2020 Campaign: August 2016 - At least through April, apparently
nan said:
You can disagree all you want, but you two are nowhere near progressive so you are part of the group that likes to claim the Progressive label for neoliberal establishment candidates. Real Progressives are for Medicare for All and a Green New Deal and don't take corporate contributions in the primary or the general. There may be some exceptions, but that's the gold standard.
The term "purity tests" is only used by neoliberal establishment candidates, by the way to try to get Progressives to fall in line, while they try to screw them over.
nan said:
Bernie is running as a Democrat and his platform is more of a traditional Dem like FDR. The centrist establishment Dems are more like Republicans than Democrats. So it's good he's apart from them--and their corrupted, corporate owned ways. They lost last time to an Psycho Orange clown and started a 2 year hoax to cover the embarrassment. So, you are the one who is not getting it.
You have the temerity to tell me I'm "nowhere near progressive" and then tout FDR as the model.
FDR was a progressive, and just as important was a pragmatist who got things done. You would have called him an "establishment Democrat" if you and that stupid label were there back then.
You object when I identified your "purity test", and then told me I flunk that test. Pretty silly on your part.
Bernie's new national press secretary was a Jill Stein supporter in 2016. I would argue that I'm more progressive than she is. I was more concerned than she was about protecting the hard-fought gains in getting more health coverage for more people. I was more concerned with protecting voting rights. I was more concerned with making sure the Supreme Court didn't shift to the right. I was more concerned with Dreamers and other undocumented immigrants. I could go on with more examples.
In today's news, we learn that Trump's Education Secretary is defunding Special Olympics. Not a surprise.
"Progressive" isn't the same as "I have a list of demands, and if I don't get exactly those demands, f*ck you all." A true progressive looks for how to use the tools of government to create the greatest good for the greatest number. That's what puts us on the other side of the conservative "tough luck, you're on your own, I've got mine" philosophy. Interestingly enough, the "I've got mine" label applies also to the "If I can't have Bernie, I'm outta here" philosophy on the left.
Your view of "progressive" is better described as "Tea Party of the Left".
[Edited for spelling]
Gillibrand again has disclosed her tax returns. She's disclosed them from 2007 on. Unlike, Bernie who still seems to have difficulty.
Ms. Gillibrand, who is currently at the bottom of the polls, recorded a video touting the disclosure of her taxes as a step toward political transparency. She has made a practice of releasing her tax returns annually since 2012, when she posted her records going back to 2007. The latest disclosure may signal her intention to make transparency a central theme in her current campaign.
Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, currently the leading declared candidate in the Democratic field, released only one year of tax information when he ran for president in 2016. He said after announcing his campaign in February that he would release 10 years of tax returns “soon,” but he has yet to provide them or set a deadline for doing so.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/us/politics/kirsten-gillibrand-taxes.html
BG9 said:
Gillibrand again has disclosed her tax returns. She's disclosed them from 2007 on. Unlike, Bernie who still seems to have difficulty.
Ms. Gillibrand, who is currently at the bottom of the polls, recorded a video touting the disclosure of her taxes as a step toward political transparency. She has made a practice of releasing her tax returns annually since 2012, when she posted her records going back to 2007. The latest disclosure may signal her intention to make transparency a central theme in her current campaign.Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, currently the leading declared candidate in the Democratic field, released only one year of tax information when he ran for president in 2016. He said after announcing his campaign in February that he would release 10 years of tax returns “soon,” but he has yet to provide them or set a deadline for doing so.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/us/politics/kirsten-gillibrand-taxes.html
Gillibrand started disclosing her returns in 2012, as a Senator. Senator Sanders, as a candidate for President, disclosed one year in 2016. The excuses from his defenders sound hollow.
nan said:
No, as I mentioned before, just see if you support the Justice Democrat platform. It's an easy checklist. We will find out if you are a Progressive and get you out the door in no time flat.
https://www.justicedemocrats.com/issues/
Read the Platform. Almost all announced Dem candidates support almost all planks.
From their website:
Who are Justice Democrat candidates?
All candidates are required to pledge not to take any corporate PAC or corporate lobbyist money. Additionally, they will be progressive candidates who generally agree with the Justice Democrats platform. Please check out the detailed description of who we are looking for at the top of our nomination page. Read about our candidates on our candidates page. (Italics added)
Which Dem Presidential candidates do not fit that description?
Further research shows this group to be a Sanders Campaign spin off. From an interview with the Group's leader:
You’re 24 and already directing a political action committee. How did you first get involved in politics?
I got involved in politics for the first time ever during the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign. I had the opportunity to start off as an intern and work up to national staff, and that's where I met some of the other founders of Justice Democrats, other volunteers from around the country who ended up, after that, starting Brand New Congress and then ultimately we started Justice Democrats, both being political action committees. Justice Democrats, we started in about January of 2017.
STANV said:
Read the Platform. Almost all announced Dem candidates support almost all planks.
From their website:
Who are Justice Democrat candidates?
All candidates are required to pledge not to take any corporate PAC or corporate lobbyist money. Additionally, they will be progressive candidates who generally agree with the Justice Democrats platform. Please check out the detailed description of who we are looking for at the top of our nomination page. Read about our candidates on our candidates page. (Italics added)
Which Dem Presidential candidates do not fit that description?
Further research shows this group to be a Sanders Campaign spin off. From an interview with the Group's leader:
You’re 24 and already directing a political action committee. How did you first get involved in politics?
I got involved in politics for the first time ever during the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign. I had the opportunity to start off as an intern and work up to national staff, and that's where I met some of the other founders of Justice Democrats, other volunteers from around the country who ended up, after that, starting Brand New Congress and then ultimately we started Justice Democrats, both being political action committees. Justice Democrats, we started in about January of 2017.
She makes almost twice as much as I do. I think I'm going to start a PAC.
nohero said:
You have the temerity to tell me I'm "nowhere near progressive" and then tout FDR as the model.
FDR was a progressive, and just as important was a pragmatist who got things done. You would have called him an "establishment Democrat" if you and that stupid label were there back then.
You object when I identified your "purity test", and then told me I flunk that test. Pretty silly on your part.
Bernie's new national press secretary was a Jill Stein supporter in 2016. I would argue that I'm more progressive than she is. I was more concerned than she was about protecting the hard-fought gains in getting more health coverage for more people. I was more concerned with protecting voting rights. I was more concerned with making sure the Supreme Court didn't shift to the right. I was more concerned with Dreamers and other undocumented immigrants. I could go on with more examples.
In today's news, we learn that Trump's Education Secretary is defunding Special Olympics. Not a surprise.
"Progressive" isn't the same as "I have a list of demands, and if I don't get exactly those demands, f*ck you all." A true progressive looks for how to use the tools of government to create the greatest good for the greatest number. That's what puts us on the other side of the conservative "tough luck, you're on your own, I've got mine" philosophy. Interestingly enough, the "I've got mine" label applies also to the "If I can't have Bernie, I'm outta here" philosophy on the left.
Your view of "progressive" is better described as "Tea Party of the Left".
[Edited for spelling]
Unlike corporate, establishment Dems, Bernie Sanders embraces FDR and continues his programs for working people, over the corrupted oligarchic servants pretending to be like him. FDR was not establishment, but he was a Democrat and that’s the model we should be emulating instead of trying to throw the one guy who does that out of the party.
What you disdainfully call a “purity test,” I call an informational checklist. Unlike establishment Dems who pretend to want party unity, while discrediting Progressives, I am openly supportive of Progressives. I think Progressives offer the best future for the country and are the best opponents to beat Trump. I don’t support the establishment candidates because I think it was establishment politics that got us Trump in the first place and I think electing one will assure more Trumps in the future. Sanders offers us a rare chance to elect someone who is uncorrupted and on our side, and has a long consistent history supporting working people and the poor and combating the 1%. Such people don’t often come along and I would hate to see the 2020 election repeat all the mistakes of 2016.
By the way, Bernie’s new press secretary, Brahana Joy Gray, voted for Jill Stein in New York, a solidly Democratic state. She knew it was not going to throw the election, but she wanted to vote for a real Progressive because she is a real Progressive and so is Bernie, which is why he hired her.
This “tea party of the left” smear is nonsense. As I’ve already explained, Sanders is an FDR Democrat. He’s not some extreme case, and in other countries he would be considered a moderate (compare him to Jeremy Corbyn). You need to open your Overton Window and let in a crack of fresh air.
BG9 said:
Gillibrand again has disclosed her tax returns. She's disclosed them from 2007 on. Unlike, Bernie who still seems to have difficulty.
Ms. Gillibrand, who is currently at the bottom of the polls, recorded a video touting the disclosure of her taxes as a step toward political transparency. She has made a practice of releasing her tax returns annually since 2012, when she posted her records going back to 2007. The latest disclosure may signal her intention to make transparency a central theme in her current campaign.Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, currently the leading declared candidate in the Democratic field, released only one year of tax information when he ran for president in 2016. He said after announcing his campaign in February that he would release 10 years of tax returns “soon,” but he has yet to provide them or set a deadline for doing so.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/us/politics/kirsten-gillibrand-taxes.html
And once again, are you going to vote for him if his taxes turn out to be as boring as advertised? Or is this just a smear? And where are Beto's taxes? Is no one asking for those?
STANV said:
Read the Platform. Almost all announced Dem candidates support almost all planks.
From their website:
Who are Justice Democrat candidates?
All candidates are required to pledge not to take any corporate PAC or corporate lobbyist money. Additionally, they will be progressive candidates who generally agree with the Justice Democrats platform. Please check out the detailed description of who we are looking for at the top of our nomination page. Read about our candidates on our candidates page. (Italics added)
Which Dem Presidential candidates do not fit that description?
Further research shows this group to be a Sanders Campaign spin off. From an interview with the Group's leader:
You’re 24 and already directing a political action committee. How did you first get involved in politics?
I got involved in politics for the first time ever during the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign. I had the opportunity to start off as an intern and work up to national staff, and that's where I met some of the other founders of Justice Democrats, other volunteers from around the country who ended up, after that, starting Brand New Congress and then ultimately we started Justice Democrats, both being political action committees. Justice Democrats, we started in about January of 2017.
Few 2020 candidates would qualify as Justice Democrats. For starters, you can't take corporate PAC money and I don't think they would go for those big fundraisers like Gillibrand, Harris, etc. are having. Then you need to support this platform, or most of it with an emphasis on the items in bold.
GREEN NEW DEAL
SECURE A LIVING WAGE AND TIE IT TO INFLATION (includes support for unions/coll bargain)
ENACT A FEDERAL JOBS GUARANTEE
REBUILD OUR CRUMBLING INFRASTRUCTURE
BLOCK BAD TRADE DEALS
END TAX DODGING AND LOOPHOLES
END UNNECESSARY WARS AND NATION BUILDING (cutting military budget)
MEDICARE FOR ALL (NOT Medicare for America or Public Option)
FREE PUBLIC COLLEGES AND TRADE SCHOOLS
DEFEND AND EXPAND SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, AND MEDICAID
ENSURE PAID VACATION TIME, SICK TIME, FAMILY LEAVE, CHILDCARE
FIGHT FOR RACIAL JUSTICE
PROTECT WOMEN’S RIGHTS
COMBAT HOMELESSNESS
POLICE REFORM
ENACT COMMON-SENSE GUN REGULATION
VOTING RIGHTS
END CORRUPTION
REFORM OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
IMPLEMENT COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM
STOP SELLING ARMS TO HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATORS
END THE FAILED WAR ON DRUGS
ABOLISH THE DEATH PENALTY
DEMOCRACY REFORM
OPPOSE BIGOTRY
DEFEND NET NEUTRALITY
geez - these videos are embarrassing - you really can't express the issues better? I don't even know who this guy's audience is. Would you say he's a Bernie Bro? Or does he support other democrats as well?
jamie said:
geez - these videos are embarrassing - you really can't express the issues better? I don't even know who this guy's audience is. Would you say he's a Bernie Bro? Or does he support other democrats as well?
What do you thing about the content? I think he explains why Medicare for All is the best plan in a clear, easy to understand way.
nan said:
And once again, are you going to vote for him if his taxes turn out to be as boring as advertised? Or is this just a smear? And where are Beto's taxes? Is no one asking for those?
I expect Beto will release his taxes. If not then I'll criticize him.
What I don't expect is a politician promising to release taxes, then after much delay getting only one year and conveniently forgetting to release his other years.
BG9 said:
I expect Beto will release his taxes. If not then I'll criticize him.
What I don't expect is a politician promising to release taxes, then after much delay getting only one year and conveniently forgetting to release his other years.
Beto is running for the same office as Bernie. You can not call for the release of taxes from one and not the other. You are just proving my point that this is a smear. Again, are you going to vote for him if he releases his taxes and they are boring as promised?
I love the words you use to describe Bernie. Asking for him to release his tax returns is a "smear".
They should all release their returns. And you should be demanding that Bernie does it even more than the others because he's had 4 years to figure it out.
nan said:
Beto is running for the same office as Bernie. You can not call for the release of taxes from one and not the other. You are just proving my point that this is a smear. Again, are you going to vote for him if he releases his taxes and they are boring as promised?
Beto just started. He didn't even have any type of campaign organization when he said he was going to run. Nobody doubts that he'll be as forthcoming as the other candidates.
Bernie had been running since August 2016. He was sneaky about his taxes the last time he ran. Somehow Ms. Nan and others were happy with his "nominate me and then I'll release my tax returns" approach. His track record is "not as forthcoming as the other candidates", so it's a good idea that he's pressed on the issue.
nan said:
By the way, Bernie’s new press secretary, Brahana Joy Gray, voted for Jill Stein in New York, a solidly Democratic state. She knew it was not going to throw the election, but she wanted to vote for a real Progressive because she is a real Progressive and so is Bernie, which is why he hired her.
Yes, but her opposition to the Democratic nominee was heard beyond the borders of New York.
She's a classic example of these pious "progressive" phonies. She didn't actually want everyone to follow her lead, and not vote for Clinton. She was counting on all the voters who cast a realistic vote. She didn't want Trump to win, but she also wanted to be able to be sanctimonious and yell at other voters that they were not "real progressives" like she is.
That's why I have no time for her, and no time for her selfish boss.
nan said:
Unlike corporate, establishment Dems, Bernie Sanders embraces FDR and continues his programs for working people, over the corrupted oligarchic servants pretending to be like him. FDR was not establishment, but he was a Democrat and that’s the model we should be emulating instead of trying to throw the one guy who does that out of the party.
FDR was Undersecretary of the Navy, 1920 VP candidate, and Governor of New York before running for President. There were Democrats who were to his left. You'd call him "establishment".
nan said:
Medicare for All is the best plan and we should not accept less.
His first wrong statement is made 25 seconds in. How much more am I supposed to watch?
nan said:
What you disdainfully call a “purity test,” I call an informational checklist. Unlike establishment Dems who pretend to want party unity, while discrediting Progressives, I am openly supportive of Progressives. I think Progressives offer the best future for the country and are the best opponents to beat Trump. I don’t support the establishment candidates because I think it was establishment politics that got us Trump in the first place and I think electing one will assure more Trumps in the future. Sanders offers us a rare chance to elect someone who is uncorrupted and on our side, and has a long consistent history supporting working people and the poor and combating the 1%. Such people don’t often come along and I would hate to see the 2020 election repeat all the mistakes of 2016.
I support progressives, but I don't have a "purity test" that excludes them from some narrow definition of "progressive".
Here's Bernie making sure to divide the Democratic Party and ensure that if his health care proposal isn't adopted, nothing will get better for people and things could get worse. From today's NYTimes:
When House Speaker Nancy Pelosi introduced legislation this week to strengthen the Affordable Care Act, Democrats across the ideological spectrum were quick to express their support: moderates, liberals, even Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the often uncompromising progressive freshman.
But not Bernie Sanders.
When asked on Tuesday night whether he, too, supported the House bill, Mr. Sanders was defiant.
“No,” he said tersely.
“No,” he said again, when pressed. “The incremental reform that I support is phasing in ‘Medicare for all.’”
So even AOC flunks Ms. Nan's purity test now.
nohero said:
nan said:Yes, but her opposition to the Democratic nominee was heard beyond the borders of New York.
By the way, Bernie’s new press secretary, Brahana Joy Gray, voted for Jill Stein in New York, a solidly Democratic state. She knew it was not going to throw the election, but she wanted to vote for a real Progressive because she is a real Progressive and so is Bernie, which is why he hired her.
She's a classic example of these pious "progressive" phonies. She didn't actually want everyone to follow her lead, and not vote for Clinton. She was counting on all the voters who cast a realistic vote. She didn't want Trump to win, but she also wanted to be able to be sanctimonious and yell at other voters that they were "real progressives" like she is.
That's why I have no time for her, and no time for her selfish boss.
Exactly right.
And Nan is going to excuse it again when Ms. Gray votes for the Green Party candidate in the general after our nomination goes to anyone but Bernie.
These folks are just a bunch of opportunistic selfish egomaniacs.
sbenois said:
I love the words you use to describe Bernie. Asking for him to release his tax returns is a "smear".
They should all release their returns. And you should be demanding that Bernie does it even more than the others because he's had 4 years to figure it out.
Who releases their taxes when they are not running for president? After he lost the nomination, there was no need and there has been no need until now when he is running again. It's back to square one and those of you demanding these taxes should be demanding Beto's taxes too. But, you don't cause it's not about the taxes. It's about smearing Bernie. Cause he's the front runner and you don't like that.
sbenois said:
Exactly right.
And Nan is going to excuse it again when Ms. Gray votes for the Green Party candidate in the general after our nomination goes to anyone but Bernie.
These folks are just a bunch of opportunistic selfish egomaniacs.
Right, there is no problem voting for JIll Stein in a state that the Dems will win in a landslide.
Sanders "Democrat" or should I say acolyte Lucy Flore suddenly has remembered to accuse Joe Biden of inappropriate behavior. Is it time to dirty anyone who may be a serious primary opponent?
Lucy Flores, a Nevada congressional candidate, is one of dozens of “Sanders Democrats” running in down-ballot races this year. She endorsed him early, championed the policies they shared, and received direct help from Bernie Sanders himself.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/sanders-flores-nevada-endorsement/487043/
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html
BG9 said:
Sanders "Democrat" or should I say acolyte Lucy Flore suddenly has remembered to accuse Joe Biden of inappropriate behavior. Is it time to dirty anyone who may be a serious primary opponent?
Lucy Flores, a Nevada congressional candidate, is one of dozens of “Sanders Democrats” running in down-ballot races this year. She endorsed him early, championed the policies they shared, and received direct help from Bernie Sanders himself.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/sanders-flores-nevada-endorsement/487043/
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html
So you don't beleive her? You think she is lying?
nan said:
Who releases their taxes when they are not running for president? After he lost the nomination, there was no need and there has been no need until now when he is running again. It's back to square one and those of you demanding these taxes should be demanding Beto's taxes too. But, you don't cause it's not about the taxes. It's about smearing Bernie. Cause he's the front runner and you don't like that.
Nan, this is not about me. This is about your inability to be objective about anything Bernie.
Bernie is not getting our nomination. So if you are counting on it, please lower your expectations now and get over it. And don't pre-whine about it.
sbenois said:
Nan, this is not about me. This is about your inability to be objective about anything Bernie.
Bernie is not getting our nomination. So if you are counting on it, please lower your expectations now and get over it. And don't pre-whine about it.
I know you are not voting for Bernie. You have made that clear. So, the only reason you ask for his taxes is because you want to attack him and you are too intellectually lazy to argue on policy.
nan said:
Who releases their taxes when they are not running for president? After he lost the nomination, there was no need and there has been no need until now when he is running again.
Two thoughts:
1. Of course he's been running, he has since August 2016. And he only released one year the last time he ran, so he's way behind.
2. "Who releases their taxes when they are not running for president?" Sen. Gillibrand, for one. You read and commented on this post last night:
BG9 said:
Gillibrand again has disclosed her tax returns. She's disclosed them from 2007 on. Unlike, Bernie who still seems to have difficulty.
Ms. Gillibrand, who is currently at the bottom of the polls, recorded a video touting the disclosure of her taxes as a step toward political transparency. She has made a practice of releasing her tax returns annually since 2012, when she posted her records going back to 2007.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/us/politics/kirsten-gillibrand-taxes.html
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
For Sale
-
REVO luggage $100
More info
No, as I mentioned before, just see if you support the Justice Democrat platform. It's an easy checklist. We will find out if you are a Progressive and get you out the door in no time flat.
https://www.justicedemocrats.com/issues/