BOE meeting 4/27 - more issues with CHS Athletics
sac said:
Graf said:
With some exceptions high school sports are increasingly irrelevant as far as scholarships are concerned. If you are a football player and really want to be noticed, you play for one of the Catholic schools. For soccer, baseball, softball, lacrosse, club play is critical.We are not a sports family and I've always been uncomfortable with the whole athletic scholarship situation. But if this is true, it is very sad. So it's only (or mainly) those who have money anyway that have the better chance at that path in college?
Athletic scholarships are awarded to a very small percentage of athletes. When you have a scholarship, it is a job and academics are secondary. So, I don't think there is a serious denial of opportunity here.
When you are a college athlete, your sport is all-consuming, even for D3 schools. So, if your kid loves his or her sport and earns a scholarship, that's fantastic. But if your kid does not have the passion, playing for a college team will consume them. I know of one D1 athlete who gave up her sport because it was coming to define her and she didn't like that. My daughter gave up rowing because it left her no time to do anything but study and she couldn't take full advantage of what her college offers.
With regard to sports at our high school, I can tell you that some - maybe all - of the teams have booster organizations that will help players with team fees and off-season team training costs if they can't afford it. However, for certain positions in certain sports, without additional private lessons, it is difficult to keep up. I think it has always been that way except that in the past, maybe the private lessons came from a father with the skills to teach or something like that.
This is not going away.
The acting superintendent has admitted that the initial "investigation" was lacking.
The "bullying coordinator" has called the families "courageous."
But when will they do something.
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2015/04/coach_made_me_hate_baseball_teen_says_as_parents_p.html#incart_river
tjohn said:
sac said:
Graf said:
With some exceptions high school sports are increasingly irrelevant as far as scholarships are concerned. If you are a football player and really want to be noticed, you play for one of the Catholic schools. For soccer, baseball, softball, lacrosse, club play is critical.We are not a sports family and I've always been uncomfortable with the whole athletic scholarship situation. But if this is true, it is very sad. So it's only (or mainly) those who have money anyway that have the better chance at that path in college?
Athletic scholarships are awarded to a very small percentage of athletes. When you have a scholarship, it is a job and academics are secondary. So, I don't think there is a serious denial of opportunity here.
When you are a college athlete, your sport is all-consuming, even for D3 schools. So, if your kid loves his or her sport and earns a scholarship, that's fantastic. But if your kid does not have the passion, playing for a college team will consume them. I know of one D1 athlete who gave up her sport because it was coming to define her and she didn't like that. My daughter gave up rowing because it left her no time to do anything but study and she couldn't take full advantage of what her college offers.
With regard to sports at our high school, I can tell you that some - maybe all - of the teams have booster organizations that will help players with team fees and off-season team training costs if they can't afford it. However, for certain positions in certain sports, without additional private lessons, it is difficult to keep up. I think it has always been that way except that in the past, maybe the private lessons came from a father with the skills to teach or something like that.
This statement is wildly inaccurate. Many athletes get scholarships, grants, etc for sports. And while they so have two jobs (student and athlete) in college when they do have these incentives, BOTH jobs are important. Also, it's important to mention that scholarship/grant/assistance money is one perk, but many kids just get a "leg up" from having an exceptional sports resume. It can be the extra that gets them in to their "reach school".
sac said:
Graf said:
With some exceptions high school sports are increasingly irrelevant as far as scholarships are concerned. If you are a football player and really want to be noticed, you play for one of the Catholic schools. For soccer, baseball, softball, lacrosse, club play is critical.We are not a sports family and I've always been uncomfortable with the whole athletic scholarship situation. But if this is true, it is very sad. So it's only (or mainly) those who have money anyway that have the better chance at that path in college?
Uncomfortable with athletic scholarships? Why? Kids have different skills sets. Some are brainiacs, some are artistic, some are athletic, some are many things. Many skill combinations are appealing to colleges. Excelling in a certain area may give you a better chance at admission at a college. They may want you more. I don't see what's wrong with this when the expertise may be sports.
mammabear said:
tjohn said:
Athletic scholarships are awarded to a very small percentage of athletes. When you have a scholarship, it is a job and academics are secondary. So, I don't think there is a serious denial of opportunity here.
When you are a college athlete, your sport is all-consuming, even for D3 schools. So, if your kid loves his or her sport and earns a scholarship, that's fantastic. But if your kid does not have the passion, playing for a college team will consume them. I know of one D1 athlete who gave up her sport because it was coming to define her and she didn't like that. My daughter gave up rowing because it left her no time to do anything but study and she couldn't take full advantage of what her college offers.
With regard to sports at our high school, I can tell you that some - maybe all - of the teams have booster organizations that will help players with team fees and off-season team training costs if they can't afford it. However, for certain positions in certain sports, without additional private lessons, it is difficult to keep up. I think it has always been that way except that in the past, maybe the private lessons came from a father with the skills to teach or something like that.
This statement is wildly inaccurate. Many athletes get scholarships, grants, etc for sports.
From a 2009 CBS MoneyWatch article:
The bottom line: only a small percentage of teenage jocks win athletic scholarships. According to the NCAA, only 2 percent of high school athletes, roughly 130,000 kids, bag a full or partial scholarship.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/scoring-a-college-athletic-scholarship/
I am a big fan of sports and, properly done, youth sports can provide a very positive experience. And, for better athletes, it can be a differentiating factor that gets them into the school of their choice.
But, I do wonder about people who are counting on scholarships as a means of paying for college. If the kid has the passion and talent, that is a good thing. Otherwise, bank the money that would otherwise be spent on extended training.
The problem is many parents have unrealistic expectations about their children getting athletic scholarships. It's way more likely they will get scholarships, financial aid, etc based on academics or need or other interests.
Athletics can be helpful for gaining admission to college, but depending on an athletic scholarship is fool's gold.
So I ask tonight for your commitment to me and to those who teach and work here to continue to work on building a culture at CHS that is collaborative and sustained by the education, skills, talent, and professionalism of our staff members, and the support and guidance that you give us. I ask that you work with us to show our students and your children by example that we are all part of the same team, with the same goals. We must work together, and not against each other. Though we may not always agree about decisions to make or steps to take, our mutual goals must be the success of all of our students. And our conduct, conversation, and communication with each other should always reflect these ideals. . . .
I will conclude tonight by promising you that we believe that all students are entitled to benefit from and achieve excellence in a Columbia High School in which race, family background, socioeconomic circumstances, or any other characteristic should not and will not determine a student’s experiences in a classroom, on a playing field, in how we manage school discipline, in how policy is implemented, or in how our students experience school and life in our building every day.
These are excerpts of remarks that the Columbia principal made at back to school night. If the spirit of these remarks had been followed during the initial "investigation," this issue would have been resolved long ago.
Because the administration botched the investigation, a second investigation has dragged on into the baseball season, interfering with and casting a spell over a highly successful season.
It's a shame for the players that the administration has not lived up to the back-to-school message. Given the rough start of the school year (enough said about that), it is shocking, too.
I don't think the baseball coach issue in any way undermines the sincerity or effectiveness of Principal Aaron. What I would ask is how the initial investigation of the events found no problems and a reinvestigation of the same events did find problems.
Graf said:
I don't think the baseball coach issue in any way undermines the sincerity or effectiveness of Principal Aaron. What I would ask is how the initial investigation of the events found no problems and a reinvestigation of the same events did find problems.
From an outsider's perspective, it appears they chose to believe the coaches and supportive parents during the first investigation but additional information and continued problems prompted the reinvestigation.
Sincerity, not in question. Effectiveness, ????
She oversaw the first investigation, which is now being redone.
Interesting the difference between this issue and the seemingly petty issue the very successful basketball coach Turner was forced to resign.
brightmoments said:
The AD and baseball coach are tight. That is the difference.
The initial investigation (from what I've been told) was conducted by the AD. I have no knowledge of whether others from the administration were involved. The second investigation was conducted independently by the anti-bullying advocate/lawyer for the district.
yahooyahoo said:
Graf said:
I don't think the baseball coach issue in any way undermines the sincerity or effectiveness of Principal Aaron. What I would ask is how the initial investigation of the events found no problems and a reinvestigation of the same events did find problems.
From an outsider's perspective, it appears they chose to believe the coaches and supportive parents during the first investigation but additional information and continued problems prompted the reinvestigation.
You really have to discount supportive parents because bully coaches are often very good at divide and conquer strategies, bully coaches may not know they are bullies or, in extreme cases, bully coaches maybe pathological. We want everything to be black and white like the Lord of the Rings where Sauron is evil without redeeming qualities. But people aren't like that. Bully coaches can be 95% great guys, but that doesn't matter. If they are 5% bullies, that has to change or they have to move on.
Awesome. Nice for the kids to know that their voices matter. Every other time is the last couple of years that students came to the BOE, they were discounted.
Great news for lacrosse. More evidence that the AD is over is head.
This means the district really needs to have a written code of conduct for players, parents and coaches and a framework for promptly reviewing complaints. In the case of the lacrosse coach, was there a knee-jerk initial reaction followed by a reversal upon closer consideration of the evidence? What support is the AD receiving? In a relatively short period of time, he has gone from teaching with no direct reports to be an AD supervising dozens and having to listen to countless parents, some with valid complaints and some just complaining without a good basis.
The lacrosse coach was a fall guy for the baseball program, a sign that the AD could be tough with coaches--just not his friends.
There are already laws and policies on the books covering this stuff. The world needs fewer frameworks and more integrity.
mammabear said:
sac said:
We are not a sports family and I've always been uncomfortable with the whole athletic scholarship situation. But if this is true, it is very sad. So it's only (or mainly) those who have money anyway that have the better chance at that path in college?
Uncomfortable with athletic scholarships? Why? Kids have different skills sets. Some are brainiacs, some are artistic, some are athletic, some are many things. Many skill combinations are appealing to colleges. Excelling in a certain area may give you a better chance at admission at a college. They may want you more. I don't see what's wrong with this when the expertise may be sports.
No, I'm not uncomfortable with athletic scholarships in and of themselves and I agree with everything you say here, in the cases where athletics are just one more dimension of college students to be rewarded and nurtured and where the associated scholarships are comparable to those for academics or other skills and expertise.
But the college athletic system and associated scholarships are a whole different thing at many schools. My concerns are about treatment of college athletes in the whole range ... from those who become injured and lose their scholarships AND their chance at earning their degree to those who excel in their sport but have no time for anything else (like tjohn's daughter) to those who are really just professional sports team members for their colleges and universities. I realize that many of these concerns are primarily related to football more than other sports, but it is those kinds of things that make me "uncomfortable".
On Friday night at our football game, we were greatly disappointed at the choice that many of you made not to be quiet during the singing of our National Anthem. It was an absolute embarrassment to watch many of be so rude during the performance of your classmates who were singing, and it was disrespectful to our marching band, our cheerleaders, and others present who were giving the American flag, our National Anthem, and our student performers their full attention.
It was equally appalling to listen not once, not even twice, but three times to a group of CHS students use vulgarities while cheering against the opposing team. Any cheer that uses, in the case of Friday night, what I will call the “f-word”, is a disgrace to Columbia High School. It is an embarrassment to our school and our two towns, and especially to our football coaching staff and every member of our football team. . . .
It was embarrassing for me not only as your principal, but also as a parent in our community who had my own children with me at the game to have to see them watch and hear such inappropriate behavior from Columbia High School students who should have been cheering for our team, not against Nutley. . . .
We expect all of our school activities and the choices our students and staff make to embody that integrity and regret that student choices and behavior did otherwise on Friday.
Students and staff, every action that we take, whether inside our walls or outside, represents who we are as a community of scholars and citizens at Columbia. Your every word and all of your actions send a message to everyone who sees and hears you, and leads them to either question who we are or, or will make them want to be part of and proud of who we are.
Please remember this every day, as you work hard and make good choices.
Families received the above letter from the Columbia principal last October. It's the right message, which is why the so-called baseball "investigation" has been so disappointing.
Does anyone remotely familiar with the baseball program seriously believe that the coaches have not engaged in similar behavior? Shouldn't we be holding coaches to the same standard as students? If so, why the failure to complete the so-called investigation and release its findings.
Not looking for a witch hunt, just equity.
I believe that Principal Aaron is sincere in her intent to make CHS as better place. I also believe she is effective.
She is also managing a large organization and cannot personally attend to every matter. She has to rely on her subordinates for most things. As is the case in any organization, if you find that your subordinates are not up to the task and cannot learn from their mistakes, then you replace them.
But, this takes time. People are entitled to due process.
Did the freshman lacrosse coach who was summarily dismissed get due process? Yes, but only after parents and players complained.
Did the parents and families who complained about the baseball program get due process? Not yet. The acting superintendent initially told them to pound sand. The second "investigation" continues.
Nobody benefits by delay. A highly successful season remains under a cloud, and that sucks for the players and even the coaches. Everyone needs resolution.
brightmoments said:
Did the freshman lacrosse coach who was summarily dismissed get due process? Yes, but only after parents and players complained.
Did the parents and families who complained about the baseball program get due process? Not yet. The acting superintendent initially told them to pound sand. The second "investigation" continues.
Nobody benefits by delay. A highly successful season remains under a cloud, and that sucks for the players and even the coaches. Everyone needs resolution.
And what was Memoli supposed to do? He received a complaint. He referred it to his AD for followup. His AD said there was no need to take action. You can't second guess and double-check every action of your subordinates.
I don't think the coaching issues detract from what the players are achieving on the field.
And what was Memoli supposed to do? He received a complaint. He referred it to his AD for followup. His AD said there was no need to take action. You can't second guess and double-check every action of your subordinates.
The administration should not have allowed the AD to conduct the initial investigation. Isn't the commonsense, especially when the district has an official whose job it is to investigate such complaints?
brightmoments said:
The administration should not have allowed the AD to conduct the initial investigation. Isn't the commonsense, especially when the district has an official whose job it is to investigate such complaints?
Why isn't the AD is the logical starting point for looking into complaints? If the plaintiffs don't like the result, they can appeal the BOE or the district's anti-bullying counsel. I know, myself included, that we all like immediate results when we are upset about something, but it sounds to me like the process is working.
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We are not a sports family and I've always been uncomfortable with the whole athletic scholarship situation. But if this is true, it is very sad. So it's only (or mainly) those who have money anyway that have the better chance at that path in college?