code red at MMS
Jackson_Fusion said:
skadave said:I considered that- the probability of the Maplewood Police Department failing to inform the Superindentent of Maplewood Schools as to the nature of a firearm (and under NJ law 2 of the items you listed are firearms) or replica firearm approaches zero.
Jackson_Fusion said:Was it a real gun, an air-soft gun, a toy gun, or a pellet gun? The school might not even know that information if it has not been disclosed by the police department. This is why they won't release information until they know the facts.
I'd like to see the area of "law" that keeps the administration from commenting on whether or not a firearm was involved. Hint: there is none.
For them to announce they're bringing in mental health people in response to an "incident" without telling parents what the "incident" was tells you where the priorities are.
I am getting sick of lawyerly communications from people who aren't lawyers and PR releases from people who should not be focused on public relations.
Simple as saying "hey there was no gun" if there was no gun, so I guess applying a little Kremlinology we can assume there was a gun
Apparently the Village Green has info saying "firearm".
Captain Dawn Williams of the MPD apparently said in a release "handgun"
http://villagegreennj.com/schools-kids/mms-student-taken-custody-handgun-possession/
For the school to make people go searching around for information is stupid and unserious
A village green article? You are basing your assumptions on an online local website? Do you remember how much wrong information was put out during the Sandy Hook shootings? Nation news outlets were claiming that the shooter's brother was the culprit and that the mother was a first grade teacher at the school (ALL wrong information).
My point is. . . it is a police investigation. Not a school investigation. The information, even if it is relayed buy the school, must come from the police.
Callista, I wish things were as sunny as you think for special needs kids, off-beat individuals, and kids with behavioral issues.
For some kids (including one of mine) it was a major issue, with stupid, insensitive and even bullying behavior from both fellow students and faculty/staff. There are issues here, especially at the middle school level. Although some kids are every bit as cool as you describe, a fair number are not.
apple44 said:
Those are good questions, but presumably the police would have been able to determine this in, what, 3 minutes? Is the gun being analyzed in Washington to determine if it is real or a toy?
skadave said:
Was it a real gun, an air-soft gun, a toy gun, or a pellet gun? The school might not even know that information if it has not been disclosed by the police department. This is why they won't release information until they know the facts.
That's not my point. . . yes the police may be able to determine that immediately. It does not mean that this information was relayed to the school.
The information most likely would have been relayed quicker if it was a toy gun, but that does not mean that the school should be issuing out information until it has been cleared by the police.
skadave said:
Jackson_Fusion said:A village green article? You are basing your assumptions on an online local website? Do you remember how much wrong information was put out during the Sandy Hook shootings? Nation news outlets were claiming that the shooter's brother was the culprit and that the mother was a first grade teacher at the school (ALL wrong information).
skadave said:I considered that- the probability of the Maplewood Police Department failing to inform the Superindentent of Maplewood Schools as to the nature of a firearm (and under NJ law 2 of the items you listed are firearms) or replica firearm approaches zero.
Jackson_Fusion said:Was it a real gun, an air-soft gun, a toy gun, or a pellet gun? The school might not even know that information if it has not been disclosed by the police department. This is why they won't release information until they know the facts.
I'd like to see the area of "law" that keeps the administration from commenting on whether or not a firearm was involved. Hint: there is none.
For them to announce they're bringing in mental health people in response to an "incident" without telling parents what the "incident" was tells you where the priorities are.
I am getting sick of lawyerly communications from people who aren't lawyers and PR releases from people who should not be focused on public relations.
Simple as saying "hey there was no gun" if there was no gun, so I guess applying a little Kremlinology we can assume there was a gun
Apparently the Village Green has info saying "firearm".
Captain Dawn Williams of the MPD apparently said in a release "handgun"
http://villagegreennj.com/schools-kids/mms-student-taken-custody-handgun-possession/
For the school to make people go searching around for information is stupid and unserious
My point is. . . it is a police investigation. Not a school investigation. The information, even if it is relayed buy the school, must come from the police.
Information did come from the police- specifically a MPD Captain. Parents should not be forced to bust out Google should they hear a rumor that the incident was not just garden variety disciplinary issues.
Alternatively, as I suggested earlier, the Admin could simply say the "rumors" (and presumably MPD) have it wrong. They did not do so.
Where information is scarce, rumors and speculation will fill the gap- in this thread alone we're already hearing about sad kids who got picked on, with utterly zero information to suggest bullying had anything to do with it
WABC 7 website now reporting a student with a gun was caught at MMS.
Steve- putting aside FERPA's applicability to criminal activity, stating that a gun was recovered on a student would not violate disclosure, even if those who saw the student being removed from school could put two and two together.
ETA- to Doris below- well said. Compassion is perhaps the most laudable of human virtue but compassion run amok, reflexively , impulsively and out of proportion is a vice.
While I'm at it-TJ- to modify your statement slightly- most people act most rationally when provided with the most accurate information available.
Yes, worrying about how something like this affects our town’s image is ridiculous. But solely focusing on the mental health of the student who brought in the gun strikes me as ridiculous as well. If he had been able to go through with his plot, would you be able to say what you just said to a grieving parent? This child’s mental health issues should absolutely addressed (although I disagree with how you throw a specific mental illness into the mix without knowing the student) but we can walk and chew gum at the same time (I hope!), and it is perfectly legitimate for MMS parents to ask questions about the specifics of what happened, why it happened, and what is being done going forward to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking that counseling-for-all and somehow making our community more connected and compassionate shouldn't be the only tools in our toolbox. And I’m also pretty sure I’m not the only one who is not so sure that any student who pursues violence is by default just as much a victim as those he or she hurts or intends to hurt. In addition to what you suggest, we also need to look at security options, discipline policies at our schools, and how information is shared by our school district. Yes, this incident has a mental health aspect (probably) and a community aspect, but it ALSO is a very serious criminal matter, with potentially massive safety implications for many kids (and teachers and administrators) beyond the one who brought in the gun. We need to look at the whole picture and not approach the situation with one hand tied behind our back out of some kind of an all-consuming pursuit for maximum compassion.
I think we should be able to agree that a brief statement of what triggered the code red would be a good practice. People tend to be a bit calmer if they at least think they know what is going on.
Doris, I agree with your comments! You are indeed not the only one with these concerns.
doris - I agree. Was trying to add one lens to the conversation that seemed missing but I certainly failed to cover all the angles. I certainly didn't mean to suggest those should be the "only tools in the toolbox" and apologize for singling out depression as a possibility. I didn't mean to suggest it was a definite cause - only that it is a possibility among others that were being suggested and one we should take seriously.
Jackson_Fusion said:Steve- putting aside FERPA's applicability to criminal activity, stating that a gun was recovered on a student would not violate disclosure, even if those who saw the student being removed from school could put two and two together.
From the school's perspective, I believe it is a disciplinary issue and therefore, in the interests of ensuring compliance with FERPA, they are probably not commenting at this time. Once PD makes it clear that there was a handgun involved (assuming that is the case), and it is public knowledge, I don't know that FERPA would preclude the District from acknowledging that a handgun was on school property.
PD had already made clear that there was a handgun involved by issuing a release to a media outlet (no matter how hyper-local). Once that had already happened, that fact should have been acknowledged in any district communications that followed.
We need a parent meeting scheduled by the district.
It's a waste of time to have a meeting. A couple hours of parents yelling at the admin will do nothing. The admin cannot control kids' access to guns.
krugle1 said:
It's a waste of time to have a meeting. A couple hours of parents yelling at the admin will do nothing. The admin cannot control kids' access to guns.
Especially because the reason for the meeting is that the administration didn't provide as much information as they could as early as they could.
Beyond that, given that a number of employees of the school district live in town, it is reasonable to assume that they, too, are unhappy about this incident and the fights and CHS>
krugle1 said:
It's a waste of time to have a meeting. A couple hours of parents yelling at the admin will do nothing. The admin cannot control kids' access to guns.
However, the admin can control the environment that might lead to a child bringing a gun to school.
FYI, from the code of conduct: fire arms possession on any school property, on a school bus, at a school sponsored function or while en route to or from school or any school sponsored function will result in removal for a period of not less than one calendar year. When warranted, the maximum penalty of expulsion from school may be imposed.
I know this was something I felt I needed to know
meandtheboys said:
FYI, from the code of conduct: fire arms possession on any school property, on a school bus, at a school sponsored function or while en route to or from school or any school sponsored function will result in removal for a period of not less than one calendar year. When warranted, the maximum penalty of expulsion from school may be imposed.
I know this was something I felt I needed to know
Nice to know he/she won't be back in class on Monday at least.
doris said:
@Familyof4
Yes, worrying about how something like this affects our town’s image is ridiculous. But solely focusing on the mental health of the student who brought in the gun strikes me as ridiculous as well. If he had been able to go through with his plot, would you be able to say what you just said to a grieving parent? This child’s mental health issues should absolutely addressed (although I disagree with how you throw a specific mental illness into the mix without knowing the student) but we can walk and chew gum at the same time (I hope!), and it is perfectly legitimate for MMS parents to ask questions about the specifics of what happened, why it happened, and what is being done going forward to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking that counseling-for-all and somehow making our community more connected and compassionate shouldn't be the only tools in our toolbox. And I’m also pretty sure I’m not the only one who is not so sure that any student who pursues violence is by default just as much a victim as those he or she hurts or intends to hurt. In addition to what you suggest, we also need to look at security options, discipline policies at our schools, and how information is shared by our school district. Yes, this incident has a mental health aspect (probably) and a community aspect, but it ALSO is a very serious criminal matter, with potentially massive safety implications for many kids (and teachers and administrators) beyond the one who brought in the gun. We need to look at the whole picture and not approach the situation with one hand tied behind our back out of some kind of an all-consuming pursuit for maximum compassion.
"Common sense is not so common" (thanks Voltaire).
Doris, thanks for hitting all the points on this, I couldn't agree more.
I am guessing there will be a story on ABC this evening, as they were shooting a spot out in front of the library at Noon today...
Already something there http://7online.com/news/student-caught-with-gun-at-middle-school/766102/
uncleb said:
I am guessing there will be a story on ABC this evening, as they were shooting a spot out in front of the library at Noon today...
It was on WABC-TV noon news just now (Anthony Johnson was outside the school on Baker reporting). That's how I found out (geesh, I miss being on MOL for 18 hours and there's so much that happened in Maplewood!).
uncleb said:
I am guessing there will be a story on ABC this evening, as they were shooting a spot out in front of the library at Noon today...
And that is the problem. If this is not addressed in some way, Maplewood will be known as the town where the kids bring guns to school. Once you have that kind of rep, it is hard to ever shake it. There are already enough people who think, based on proximity to Newark and Irvington, that Maplewood and S. Orange are dangerous places to live.
As a new resident with young kids, this is all terrifying to me. I am many, many years away from having kids in middle school, but I just hope this is not representative of other problems in the school system.
Um, did I just read that right? The kid with homicidal intentions could be back in our schools again in as little as a year? Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with this thought? How do they decide what the actual timeframe will be? Are there any stated criteria that need to be met before he/she may return? Clearly he or she needs help. I would like to know that he or she received it and that it was effective before having him/her around our children again. And I don't really know how you can be sure that it was effective...
Agree. Sorry to burst Callista's bubble but our kids are not so "amazingly cool" with special needs kids. Thankfully, I pulled mine out of the school system years ago. Best decision I've ever made.
susan1014 said:
Callista, I wish things were as sunny as you think for special needs kids, off-beat individuals, and kids with behavioral issues.
For some kids (including one of mine) it was a major issue, with stupid, insensitive and even bullying behavior from both fellow students and faculty/staff. There are issues here, especially at the middle school level. Although some kids are every bit as cool as you describe, a fair number are not.
susan1014 said:
Callista, I wish things were as sunny as you think for special needs kids, off-beat individuals, and kids with behavioral issues.
For some kids (including one of mine) it was a major issue, with stupid, insensitive and even bullying behavior from both fellow students and faculty/staff. There are issues here, especially at the middle school level. Although some kids are every bit as cool as you describe, a fair number are not.
+1
Per a few MMS students, apparently this gun toting student has made it clear that he is in a gang. He has been a source of trouble in school always. Why has nothing been done? (I ask rhetorically, as I know none of you know
Sign this -
https://www.change.org/p/maplewood-middle-school-and-the-south-orange-maplewood-school-district-hold-an-assembly-for-students-and-a-community-forum-to-discuss-the-dangers-of-gun-violence-and-the-specific-gun-related-incident-that-occurred-at-mms?recruiter=7640087&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive
My aunt was the librarian at Sandy Hook. Her daughter/my cousin now works for Everytown for Gun Safety. I will get in touch with her and see if she can recommend anything for the assembly or otherwise.
FERPA