How far will Trump go? Child Abuse Edition.

alex4855 said:

LOST said:

abernethy said:
This recent policy was too extreme but incentives and policies matter and affect the result. They are not coming because of political prosecution or war.  They are coming because our economy is strong.  They are coming because of relatively better living standards.   Our government provided healthcare/welfare, educational system, and the spirit of the Constitution were originally intended to make the nation strong.  It was and is self interest.    Is it a good idea to provide incentive and a fast track on immigration to thousands of poor people with no skills, no money, no documentation when there are thousands more immigrants with all that waiting in line to add positively to our country?   

 Many are fleeing gang wars and associated violence. They may not be "traditional" wars but should we prioritize Syrian refugees who are fleeing an actual War?
As to "poor people with no skills, no money" those were the type of immigrants who traditionally came to this country. Was it a mistake to admit the Irish or the Italians.


I think that you and I have two different visions of America. 

 Hey-  if you have nothing to do one evening, I can take you to the land of Newark, to a part of that city where families are caught in gang battles and wars every day, where their kids are subject to pressure and physical harm from thugs like MS13, where the families are separated because one of the parents is in jail, where economic conditions are despicable and the police refuse to enter.  Its a virtual war zone.   That is a real vision of part of America, a few miles from Maplehood.  Stop a police officer in town- get informed.  No asylum / no family preservation here.  Its a hypocritical argument-mostly from champagne limousine liberals who have nothing else to do but point the finger - never at the mirror.

 I am in Newark often. You don't know what you're talking about.

I mean the place is not heaven but it's certainly not Central America. Have you been "Down Neck"? Have you been to NJPAC or the Prudential Center?

The fear of MS13 is charming. Trump is trying to turn them into the new Radical Islamist (and it's working among some).

The last reported crime by MS-13 members in Newark was over ten years ago.

https://www.nj.com/crime/index.ssf/2017/06/ms-13_in_new_jersey_1.html

ridski said:

alex4855 said:

drummerboy said:

alex4855 said:

dave23 said:

alex4855 said:

The determination is not mine to make, however, I would prefer the families remain together.  As you most likely know, the very great majority of these filings are rejected for lack of credible evidence, and the filers deported.  

I do love the passive role you suddenly stake out. 
Re denial rates: They had been hovering just over 50% for about a decade (hardly a "great majority"), but have been going up as asylum seekers have not been able to secure representation and cannot navigate the system on their own. I expect the rate to continue to go up as they are too brown for the current leadership.

 First, get clear information. Notice the increase over the past 5 years including those of President Obama. 
http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/491/
The constant reference to color is lame, a turn to an argument that doesn't cut it.  

 do you know how to read bar charts?

English..
can you read the first paragraph>?

Hopefully you read more than that. The link you posted appears to prove dave23's point that the rise in asylum denial correlates with lack of representation.

 In addition to stricter application review, sheer volume of fraudulent filings, backlogs in clearing cases and much, much more.  However, what is not discussed is the increased US$ being charged by the mulas that structure these cases, coordinate and match groups and drop off these kids without regard to their safety.  Panama is an attractive alternative, and much, much closer.

alex4855 said:
 In addition to stricter application review, sheer volume of fraudulent filings, backlogs in clearing cases and much, much more.  However, what is not discussed is the increased US$ being charged by the mulas that structure these cases, coordinate and match groups and drop off these kids without regard to their safety.  Panama is an attractive alternative, and much, much closer.

Since you've chosen to move on from your own fraudulent claims: Yeah, sometimes being the wealthiest and most desirable nation in the history of the world raises costs in certain areas. The new blood of immigrants has been crucial to getting to that place of wealth and it's short-sighted (and racist, of course) to want to cut that off now. 

Sorry to maybe point out the obvious here but these are very small numbers.  ~30,000 applications.  Last year there were over 1M  lawful immigrants to the US.    Is this whole bad policy and event just getting sensationalized and blown way out of proportion?

Furthermore, the nationalist Japanesegovernment finally decided to admit 500,000 blue collar guest workers by 2025.   Around  1000 people die per day in Japan (around 7000 in the US by the way).  Japan needs 200,000 immigrants annually just to maintain their population of 100M due to low fertility rates of 1.43%.  

Of course it's being sensationalized, but Trump has made it clear he prefers immigrants from white countries, and his race-baiting and ugly language could lead to tightening of the more traditional immigration methods.

The NY Times on Obama's treatment of families in detention centers.  Missing in action the MOL defenders of families and children.  

abernethy said:
Sorry to maybe point out the obvious here but these are very small numbers.  ~30,000 applications.  Last year there were over 1M  lawful immigrants to the US.    Is this whole bad policy and event just getting sensationalized and blown way out of proportion?

Table 1B.
PERSONS OBTAINING LAWFUL PERMANENT RESIDENT STATUS BY TYPE AND MAJOR CLASS OF ADMISSION: FISCAL YEAR 2017
	Total
	Total
Total	1,128,194
Family-sponsored preferences	231,892
First: Unmarried sons/daughters of U.S. citizens and their children	26,163
Second: Spouses, children, and unmarried sons/daughters of alien residents	113,289
Third: Married sons/daughters of U.S. citizens and their spouses and children	23,241
Fourth: Brothers/sisters of U.S. citizens (at least 21 years of age) and their spouses and children	69,199
Immediate relatives of U.S. citizens	515,471
Spouses	292,186
Children1	74,696
Parents	148,589
Employment-based preferences	138,980
First: Priority workers	41,646
Second: Professionals with advanced degrees or aliens of exceptional ability	39,741
Third: Skilled workers, professionals, and unskilled workers	38,151
Fourth: Certain special immigrants	9,587
Fifth: Employment creation (investors)	9,855
Diversity	51,493
Refugees	120,543
Asylees	26,017
Parolees	26
Children born abroad to alien residents	59
Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA)	42
Cancellation of removal	4,372
Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act (HRIFA)	11
Other	39,288
D Data withheld to limit disclosure.
'- Represents zero.
1 Includes orphans.
Note: Numbers in this table may differ from previously published figures due to updating of data series.
Source: U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Furthermore, the nationalist Japanesegovernment finally decided to admit 500,000 blue collar guest workers by 2025.   Around  1000 people die per day in Japan (around 7000 in the US by the way).  Japan needs 200,000 immigrants annually just to maintain their population of 100M due to low fertility rates of 1.43%.  

 Lawful permanent resident status isn't the same as a visa. It establishes you with a green card or equivalent. There are many more with work visas, or fiancee visas on employment authorization cards, student visas, and visas which allow you to be in country legally but unable to work. Not everyone who is here legally qualifies for legal permanent residency and for many it can be years of waiting before even being able to apply.

dave23 said:

alex4855 said:
 In addition to stricter application review, sheer volume of fraudulent filings, backlogs in clearing cases and much, much more.  However, what is not discussed is the increased US$ being charged by the mulas that structure these cases, coordinate and match groups and drop off these kids without regard to their safety.  Panama is an attractive alternative, and much, much closer.

Since you've chosen to move on from your own fraudulent claims: Yeah, sometimes being the wealthiest and most desirable nation in the history of the world raises costs in certain areas. The new blood of immigrants has been crucial to getting to that place of wealth and it's short-sighted (and racist, of course) to want to cut that off now. 

 I guess you discount the business in trafficking to the USA as the primary driver.  Either your intentionally blind to the realities or incredibly naive.

LOST said:

alex4855 said:

LOST said:

abernethy said:
This recent policy was too extreme but incentives and policies matter and affect the result. They are not coming because of political prosecution or war.  They are coming because our economy is strong.  They are coming because of relatively better living standards.   Our government provided healthcare/welfare, educational system, and the spirit of the Constitution were originally intended to make the nation strong.  It was and is self interest.    Is it a good idea to provide incentive and a fast track on immigration to thousands of poor people with no skills, no money, no documentation when there are thousands more immigrants with all that waiting in line to add positively to our country?   

 Many are fleeing gang wars and associated violence. They may not be "traditional" wars but should we prioritize Syrian refugees who are fleeing an actual War?
As to "poor people with no skills, no money" those were the type of immigrants who traditionally came to this country. Was it a mistake to admit the Irish or the Italians.


I think that you and I have two different visions of America. 

 Hey-  if you have nothing to do one evening, I can take you to the land of Newark, to a part of that city where families are caught in gang battles and wars every day, where their kids are subject to pressure and physical harm from thugs like MS13, where the families are separated because one of the parents is in jail, where economic conditions are despicable and the police refuse to enter.  Its a virtual war zone.   That is a real vision of part of America, a few miles from Maplehood.  Stop a police officer in town- get informed.  No asylum / no family preservation here.  Its a hypocritical argument-mostly from champagne limousine liberals who have nothing else to do but point the finger - never at the mirror.

 I am in Newark often. You don't know what you're talking about.
I mean the place is not heaven but it's certainly not Central America. Have you been "Down Neck"? Have you been to NJPAC or the Prudential Center?

 Of course!  Like me, you seem to frequent that land of Newark - where selfish Republicans, Trumpsters and MOL Liberal Elites enjoy a rodizio, some fine wine and perhaps a Gloria Cubana on the way to the Philharmonic. Sounds like your champagne toast takes place at the finer places along the way.  Get a grip man- seems like you just don't have a clue.

alex4855 said:

dave23 said:

alex4855 said:
 In addition to stricter application review, sheer volume of fraudulent filings, backlogs in clearing cases and much, much more.  However, what is not discussed is the increased US$ being charged by the mulas that structure these cases, coordinate and match groups and drop off these kids without regard to their safety.  Panama is an attractive alternative, and much, much closer.

Since you've chosen to move on from your own fraudulent claims: Yeah, sometimes being the wealthiest and most desirable nation in the history of the world raises costs in certain areas. The new blood of immigrants has been crucial to getting to that place of wealth and it's short-sighted (and racist, of course) to want to cut that off now. 

 I guess you discount the business in trafficking to the USA as the primary driver.  Either your intentionally blind to the realities or incredibly naive.

LOST said:

alex4855 said:

LOST said:

abernethy said:
This recent policy was too extreme but incentives and policies matter and affect the result. They are not coming because of political prosecution or war.  They are coming because our economy is strong.  They are coming because of relatively better living standards.   Our government provided healthcare/welfare, educational system, and the spirit of the Constitution were originally intended to make the nation strong.  It was and is self interest.    Is it a good idea to provide incentive and a fast track on immigration to thousands of poor people with no skills, no money, no documentation when there are thousands more immigrants with all that waiting in line to add positively to our country?   

 Many are fleeing gang wars and associated violence. They may not be "traditional" wars but should we prioritize Syrian refugees who are fleeing an actual War?
As to "poor people with no skills, no money" those were the type of immigrants who traditionally came to this country. Was it a mistake to admit the Irish or the Italians.


I think that you and I have two different visions of America. 

 Hey-  if you have nothing to do one evening, I can take you to the land of Newark, to a part of that city where families are caught in gang battles and wars every day, where their kids are subject to pressure and physical harm from thugs like MS13, where the families are separated because one of the parents is in jail, where economic conditions are despicable and the police refuse to enter.  Its a virtual war zone.   That is a real vision of part of America, a few miles from Maplehood.  Stop a police officer in town- get informed.  No asylum / no family preservation here.  Its a hypocritical argument-mostly from champagne limousine liberals who have nothing else to do but point the finger - never at the mirror.

 I am in Newark often. You don't know what you're talking about.
I mean the place is not heaven but it's certainly not Central America. Have you been "Down Neck"? Have you been to NJPAC or the Prudential Center?

 Of course!  Like me, you seem to frequent that land of Newark - where selfish Republicans, Trumpsters and MOL Liberal Elites enjoy a rodizio, some fine wine and perhaps a Gloria Cubana on the way to the Philharmonic. Sounds like your champagne toast takes place at the finer places along the way.  Get a grip man- seems like you just don't have a clue.

 I'm game to go on your make believe Safari. I lived in Newark, some family still does and I think you're talking shite

flimbro said:

alex4855 said:

dave23 said:

alex4855 said:
 In addition to stricter application review, sheer volume of fraudulent filings, backlogs in clearing cases and much, much more.  However, what is not discussed is the increased US$ being charged by the mulas that structure these cases, coordinate and match groups and drop off these kids without regard to their safety.  Panama is an attractive alternative, and much, much closer.

Since you've chosen to move on from your own fraudulent claims: Yeah, sometimes being the wealthiest and most desirable nation in the history of the world raises costs in certain areas. The new blood of immigrants has been crucial to getting to that place of wealth and it's short-sighted (and racist, of course) to want to cut that off now. 

 I guess you discount the business in trafficking to the USA as the primary driver.  Either your intentionally blind to the realities or incredibly naive.

LOST said:

alex4855 said:

LOST said:

abernethy said:
This recent policy was too extreme but incentives and policies matter and affect the result. They are not coming because of political prosecution or war.  They are coming because our economy is strong.  They are coming because of relatively better living standards.   Our government provided healthcare/welfare, educational system, and the spirit of the Constitution were originally intended to make the nation strong.  It was and is self interest.    Is it a good idea to provide incentive and a fast track on immigration to thousands of poor people with no skills, no money, no documentation when there are thousands more immigrants with all that waiting in line to add positively to our country?   

 Many are fleeing gang wars and associated violence. They may not be "traditional" wars but should we prioritize Syrian refugees who are fleeing an actual War?
As to "poor people with no skills, no money" those were the type of immigrants who traditionally came to this country. Was it a mistake to admit the Irish or the Italians.


I think that you and I have two different visions of America. 

 Hey-  if you have nothing to do one evening, I can take you to the land of Newark, to a part of that city where families are caught in gang battles and wars every day, where their kids are subject to pressure and physical harm from thugs like MS13, where the families are separated because one of the parents is in jail, where economic conditions are despicable and the police refuse to enter.  Its a virtual war zone.   That is a real vision of part of America, a few miles from Maplehood.  Stop a police officer in town- get informed.  No asylum / no family preservation here.  Its a hypocritical argument-mostly from champagne limousine liberals who have nothing else to do but point the finger - never at the mirror.

 I am in Newark often. You don't know what you're talking about.
I mean the place is not heaven but it's certainly not Central America. Have you been "Down Neck"? Have you been to NJPAC or the Prudential Center?

 Of course!  Like me, you seem to frequent that land of Newark - where selfish Republicans, Trumpsters and MOL Liberal Elites enjoy a rodizio, some fine wine and perhaps a Gloria Cubana on the way to the Philharmonic. Sounds like your champagne toast takes place at the finer places along the way.  Get a grip man- seems like you just don't have a clue.

 I'm game to go on your make believe Safari. I lived in Newark, some family still does and I think you're talking shite

Didn't live in the utopia make believe Newark your Cadillac liberalism recalls. You definitely have no clue- no doubt about it now.  Sad how you can claim knowledge of the atrocities at the border and shocking ignorance of those that exist so close to your home.  

So, I take it that's a no go on the tour?  

I'll drive the Caddy and let you ride in the back- with the top down.  

for those of us on phones  --- please don't quote the entire thread!

Your accustomed to finer things than a ride through reality.!!

alex4855 said:
  Of course!  Like me, you seem to frequent that land of Newark - where selfish Republicans, Trumpsters and MOL Liberal Elites enjoy a rodizio, some fine wine and perhaps a Gloria Cubana on the way to the Philharmonic. Sounds like your champagne toast takes place at the finer places along the way.  Get a grip man- seems like you just don't have a clue.

 I have been trying to have a civil and intelligent discussion with you but you insist on being flippant and insulting me.

You and I do not know each other. Most of the time I am in Newark it is on business. Haven't been there for pleasure in a while. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I've tried to be respectful. Maybe you should try it some time.

Happy to oblige.  Unfortunately, MOL posters lead one to respond in kind.

alex4855 said:

dave23 said:

alex4855 said:
 In addition to stricter application review, sheer volume of fraudulent filings, backlogs in clearing cases and much, much more.  However, what is not discussed is the increased US$ being charged by the mulas that structure these cases, coordinate and match groups and drop off these kids without regard to their safety.  Panama is an attractive alternative, and much, much closer.

Since you've chosen to move on from your own fraudulent claims: Yeah, sometimes being the wealthiest and most desirable nation in the history of the world raises costs in certain areas. The new blood of immigrants has been crucial to getting to that place of wealth and it's short-sighted (and racist, of course) to want to cut that off now. 

 I guess you discount the business in trafficking to the USA as the primary driver.  Either your intentionally blind to the realities or incredibly naive.

 Well, you've been wrong/lying in most of you posts, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and look forward to the data you'll share about it being *primarily* about human trafficking (as opposed to people hiring men to take them across the boarder).

abernethy said:
Sorry to maybe point out the obvious here but these are very small numbers.  ~30,000 applications.  Last year there were over 1M  lawful immigrants to the US.    Is this whole bad policy and event just getting sensationalized and blown way out of proportion?

likely it is.  It's another opportunity to create chaos, and put those images out in the media so the Trump base will be convinced our border is being overrun.  Even though it's not.

The white nationalist president and conservative leader with 90% approval from Republicans: "Crime, crime, crime happens automatically when you have those open borders."

alex4855 said:
Happy to oblige.  Unfortunately, MOL posters lead one to respond in kind.

Thank you. Don't group everyone together. I speak (post) for myself.

flimbro said:
So, I take it that's a no go on the tour?  
I'll drive the Caddy and let you ride in the back- with the top down.  

 pleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappen

ridski said:

flimbro said:
So, I take it that's a no go on the tour?  
I'll drive the Caddy and let you ride in the back- with the top down.  

 pleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappen

 Repetitive sentence structure is a sign of severe cerebral dysfunction most commonly brought about by liberalitius, a debilitating disease from which there is seldom a cure.

alex4855 said:

ridski said:

flimbro said:
So, I take it that's a no go on the tour?  
I'll drive the Caddy and let you ride in the back- with the top down.  

 pleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappenpleasemakethishappen

 Repetitive sentence structure is a sign of severe cerebral dysfunction most commonly brought about by liberalitius, a debilitating disease from which there is seldom a cure.

 You talk a lot but I see you haven't accepted the tour invitation.

Interesting.  I gather that by "talk" you are referencing written conversation.  That "said", your preoccupation with my travel is really weird and creepy.  Its like Al kissing Tipper.

alex4855 said:
Interesting.  I gather that by "talk" you are referencing written conversation.  That "said", your preoccupation with my travel is really weird and creepy.  Its like Al kissing Tipper.

 it's really not even close to that.

why, why, why are cons like you so horrible at analogies?

That's where the real cerebral dysfunction is.

drummerboy said:

alex4855 said:
Interesting.  I gather that by "talk" you are referencing written conversation.  That "said", your preoccupation with my travel is really weird and creepy.  Its like Al kissing Tipper.

 it's really not even close to that.
why, why, why are cons like you so horrible at analogies?

That's where the real cerebral dysfunction is.

drummerboy said:

alex4855 said:
Interesting.  I gather that by "talk" you are referencing written conversation.  That "said", your preoccupation with my travel is really weird and creepy.  Its like Al kissing Tipper.

 it's really not even close to that.
why, why, why are cons like you so horrible at analogies?

That's where the real cerebral dysfunction is.

It's because we fear becoming  nosey pokers by contracting "Liberalitius Infectious", a terrible and crippling mostly incurable psychiatric disorder.  Its like you are a tomato struggling for self-expression.

PSA: Feeding of trolls is unwise and may lead to heartburn and dysphoria.

I feed trolls on MOL all the time.  Mostly flartberd samweches, banes, potabos, bursl prots and pasikles.  Never suffered heartburn or anything else from it.  Lib trolls need to learn from Miss Piggy:

 “Never eat more than you can lift. ”

alex4855 said:
 That "said", your preoccupation with my travel is really weird and creepy.  Its like Al kissing Tipper.

 I did not find that weird and creepy. At the time they were a happily married couple.

I find your opinions rather weird. Apparently you find the Political Party that gave us Social Security, Medicare, Federal Aid to Education and has always supported Labor Unions to be nothing more than wealth champagne drinking limousine riders and the Party that has since at least 1920 been The Party of Business and to me the Party of the Rich, by the Rich and For the Rich, the great friend of the "working man".

If that is not weird then what is?