Meanderings...
I'm with you drummerboy. Although I never appreciated Don Rickles either. I think it's the longevity and striving and personal good heartedness of those individuals. Bless their hearts.
Rickles wasn't a personal favorite either, but at least I could see something going on there. Personally I found her most appealing when she was self-deprecating.
But yeah, you have to give credit to anyone who can keep themselves popular for so long.
But yeah, you have to give credit to anyone who can keep themselves popular for so long.
Sep 6, 2014 at 3:24am Edited
She was courageous, hard working, rapier wit against herself and others. The excellent movie about her reflected her strengths. However, don't tell anyone, but she is not going to receive the Mother Theresa Award for compassion.
OK, but I'm not seeing the rapier wit though. Have you gone through those clips I posted above? A lot of tired stuff in there. And I'm pretty sure it's not just a question of taste.
drummerboy said:
OK, but I'm not seeing the rapier wit though. Have you gone through those clips I posted above? A lot of tired stuff in there. And I'm pretty sure it's not just a question of taste.
I confess that I haven't gone through the clips posted, was just giving my impression, and don't have the time nor strong interest to move it to the top of my priority list. I will have to defer to you and others for deeper research into this question.
Sep 6, 2014 at 5:24am Edited
She was brilliant with improv and banter. Listen to her Howard Stern appearances some time.
Actually, her roast which was a couple of years ago was funny and edgy, including her retorts. It's worth watching if you can ding it.
I saw the Gilbert Gottfried bit, which was pretty funny. I'll see if I can dig up the rest.
Listened to some of her stuff with Stern as suggested. Still unimpressed.
Came across an obituary which sums up my feelings pretty well:
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott
Here's the ending, but the rest of obit is much more laudatory.
Listened to some of her stuff with Stern as suggested. Still unimpressed.
Came across an obituary which sums up my feelings pretty well:
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott
Here's the ending, but the rest of obit is much more laudatory.
I’m not going to pretend that I was a big fan of Rivers’s comedy, apart from her early days. The jittery rhythms of her joke machinery were too blatant and monotonous—her punchline machinery was almost purely telegraphic, Borscht-belting, with little of the multistrand weave and mulling pauses that you got from a Richard Pryor or George Carlin monologue. But she was a trouper, a tough dame, and with Lauren Bacall, Elaine Stritch, and now Joan Rivers gone, the tough, resilient, raspy New York dame may be truly gone for good.
I really liked this one, which sums up my feelings nicely:
http://afterhourskg.blogspot.com/2014/09/can-we-talk-unruly-life-and-legacy-of.html
http://afterhourskg.blogspot.com/2014/09/can-we-talk-unruly-life-and-legacy-of.html
drummerboy hated her comedy, Johnny Carson loved her comedy.
Whose opinion do you value more?
Whose opinion do you value more?
The opinion of a celebrity is worth more than the opinion of the average man? Last I heard, comedy was not an absolute or a measurable quantity. I didn't think she was all that funny either. Who would you like to compare me to???
Jeez, this isn't an RIP thread. Give it a rest.
Jeez, this isn't an RIP thread. Give it a rest.
Sep 8, 2014 at 9:15am Edited
We recently had a large sign here in the North Carolina sticks...
"Large referbished room, easy access toilets with internet and TV"
"Large referbished room, easy access toilets with internet and TV"
buzzlightyear said:
drummerboy hated her comedy, Johnny Carson loved her comedy.
Whose opinion do you value more?
drummerboy, of course
Sep 8, 2014 at 9:33am Edited
mjh said:
buzzlightyear said:
drummerboy hated her comedy, Johnny Carson loved her comedy.
Whose opinion do you value more?
drummerboy, of course
Johnny Carson refused to talk to Joan for 19 years until he died. I doubt if he was amused by her during that time, nor would he be considered her strongest supporter. Therefore, if that's the best you can come up with, I would vote for drummerboy, as well.
Facts are important and you left out a very important fact. He hated her after Fox hired her to compete with him on a late night show. Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things
buzzlightyear said:
Facts are important and you left out a very important fact. He hated her after Fox hired her to compete with him on a late night show. Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things
His reaction was completely asinine and unreasonable to her. He was a jerk.
mjh said:
buzzlightyear said:
Facts are important and you left out a very important fact. He hated her after Fox hired her to compete with him on a late night show. Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things
His reaction was completely asinine and unreasonable to her. He was a jerk.
One learned never to screw with Johnny. Other than Stern and Joan, few did
Pixigirl, love the ad! 
)
It just shows how subjective humour is, wherever you find it and however it's delivered.
) It just shows how subjective humour is, wherever you find it and however it's delivered.
buzzlightyear said:
Facts are important and you left out a very important fact. He hated her after Fox hired her to compete with him on a late night show. Facts facts facts, pesky as they are we need them when we attempt to explain things
Do you realize how small it is for someone in show business to get pissed off at someone because they choose to advance their career? I happen to like Carson, but it shows you what a little siht he really was.
As for Carson liking her comedy, I couldn't find Rivers' 1965 appearance on Carson's show, but I found this 1967 appearance on the Ed Sullivan show.
Go ahead, tell me about the brilliance exhibited here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpPCFoXXhF0
you're going back to 1965 in order to prove she wasn't funny? And your actually saying that her appearance on the Ed Sullivan show proves she wasn't funny?
honestly dude, give it up.
honestly dude, give it up.
Sep 8, 2014 at 1:32pm Edited
I'm going back to the time when she was in her prime. When Carson learned to love her and predicted she'd be a big star. It's actually much easier to show she's not funny to show her in her later years.
I guess you're a youngster, huh?
I guess you're a youngster, huh?
DB - that 1965 appearance wasn't too bad for that time - can you post a female stand up routine you liked more from that era?
In defense of Joan, I just heard on WNYC where Broadway had initially refused to dim their lights in her honor because she didn't meet their "criteria". That's pretty BS if you ask me - she was pure showbiz. I might not have cared for her, but I can't deny that she was popular and had a huge following.
jamie said:
DB - that 1965 appearance wasn't too bad for that time - can you post a female stand up routine you liked more from that era?
well, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any female stand up from back then - I can't even think of anyone, off the top of my head. Phyllis Diller maybe? That's why she gets a lot of credit.
mjh said:
I really liked this one, which sums up my feelings nicely:
http://afterhourskg.blogspot.com/2014/09/can-we-talk-unruly-life-and-legacy-of.html
+1 perfect
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This is supposed to be her at her best:
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/04/watch_joan_riverss_8_funniest_talk_show_appearances/
Really? If this is her best work, if she was a guy she would never had made it. I can appreciate her hard work, her breakthrough work as a women comic, her longevity and all that, but I just can't see placing her up there among the great comics. Damn, if you compare her with Carol Burnett, or even Lucille Ball, there just is no comparison.
So maybe someone could explain the appeal?