Is anybody else scared about hydrofracking???
Nov 30, 2011 at 7:30am Edited
Last public hearing on NY State rules re:Fracking taking place in TriBeCa TODAY. Weigh in online if you have an opinion!
http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/77353.html
http://www.dec.ny.gov/energy/76838.html
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http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/77353.html
http://www.dec.ny.gov/energy/76838.html
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I knew I liked this guy...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/fashion/mark-ruffalo-actor-embraces-anti-fracking-role.html?hp
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/fashion/mark-ruffalo-actor-embraces-anti-fracking-role.html?hp
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It figures...
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/industry-boos-oscar-nod-for-gasland/
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http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/industry-boos-oscar-nod-for-gasland/
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Brand new information just released in regards to injection wells in Ohio. 4.0 Earthquake not a naturlal event and seismic activity linked to well injection.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/04/us-earthquake-ohio-idUSTRE80302220120104
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/04/us-earthquake-ohio-idUSTRE80302220120104
I admit that I don't know much about natural gas, but considering that fracking seems to be a possibility for accessing our natural gas, I have become a bit unsure of changing over to gas once our oil furnace kicks the bucket. It seemed like the type of change we needed to make, but now I don't know. Could be that oil is not necessarily the more evil of the two evils. Anybody?
We changed this summer, when our furnace was flooded, to electric. All mechanisms, except the electric panel, are above the basement, and the panel was rebuilt and placed up high, with a new sump pump in the basement. (Thank goodness for flood insurance.) Today, a very cold day, saw the second floor of our 120 year old Victorian to be quite warm and toasty. Downstairs needed some warming up with spot electric heaters, but it became comfortable by about mid-morning. In all, to heat about 800 square feet upstairs and down (we don't heat one bedroom, or the attic) comes to about $450 per month. That's was the oil heat cost, at least. So we love our baseboards. If we dared, we'd also invest in a pellet stove, but our old house might not take well to it.
Jan 4, 2012 at 11:48am Edited
elspeth said:
We changed this summer, when our furnace was flooded, to electric. All mechanisms, except the electric panel, are above the basement, and the panel was rebuilt and placed up high, with a new sump pump in the basement. (Thank goodness for flood insurance.) Today, a very cold day, saw the second floor of our 120 year old Victorian to be quite warm and toasty. Downstairs needed some warming up with spot electric heaters, but it became comfortable by about mid-morning. In all, to heat about 800 square feet upstairs and down (we don't heat one bedroom, or the attic) comes to about $450 per month. That's was the oil heat cost, at least. So we love our baseboards. If we dared, we'd also invest in a pellet stove, but our old house might not take well to it.
How do you think the electricity for your heaters is generated?
Gas is by FAR the cleaner solution but it should be looked at as a bridge solution. They are all getting hard ons over the money that can be made because of our enourmous gas reserves ... when they should focus on developing renewable energy sources. There is NO REASON on earth why a country like America is so far behind when it comes to supplementing with renewable energy. In Germany 20% is generated by renewable sources. That should be the focus...
@Soda...
I just realized that East Orange Water is actively doing acid prep fracking...
http://www.principiainc.com/water/articles/untitledpost
I just realized that East Orange Water is actively doing acid prep fracking...
http://www.principiainc.com/water/articles/untitledpost
Thanks for the reference, but: No results found when you Google "acid prep fracking".
My take: The article's decription of how we get our H2O is rather benign relative to the process used to obtan gas from the Marcellus Shale...
I share your general concerns, but lumping EOW in with the Oil & Gas Industry seems a stretch.
-s.
My take: The article's decription of how we get our H2O is rather benign relative to the process used to obtan gas from the Marcellus Shale...
I share your general concerns, but lumping EOW in with the Oil & Gas Industry seems a stretch.
-s.
Jan 4, 2012 at 1:20pm Edited
rastro said:
elspeth said:
We changed this summer, when our furnace was flooded, to electric. All mechanisms, except the electric panel, are above the basement, and the panel was rebuilt and placed up high, with a new sump pump in the basement. (Thank goodness for flood insurance.) Today, a very cold day, saw the second floor of our 120 year old Victorian to be quite warm and toasty. Downstairs needed some warming up with spot electric heaters, but it became comfortable by about mid-morning. In all, to heat about 800 square feet upstairs and down (we don't heat one bedroom, or the attic) comes to about $450 per month. That's was the oil heat cost, at least. So we love our baseboards. If we dared, we'd also invest in a pellet stove, but our old house might not take well to it.
How do you think the electricity for your heaters is generated?
Rastro; What do you have against hydroelectric?
soda said:
Thanks for the reference, but: No results found when you Google "acid prep fracking".
Acidizing involves pumping acid (usually hydrochloric acid), into the formation. The acid dissolves some of the rock material so that the rock pores open and fluid flows more quickly into the well. Fracking and acidizing are sometimes performed simultaneously, in an acid fracture treatment
http://www.earthworksaction.org/issues/detail/hydraulic_fracturing_101
http://gdacoalition.org/GDAC_FRACK.html
My take: The article's decription of how we get our H2O is rather benign relative to the process used to obtan gas from the Marcellus Shale...
I share your general concerns, but lumping EOW in with the Oil & Gas Industry seems a stretch.
-s.
I guess you are not aware of the water situation in South Orange. Considering that you are showering (forget drinking..showering is way worse) in water that is not really tested for most of the month and supplied by a company that has been found to manipulate the state testing results? I'd be worried about that company fracking and pre treating by acidizing the well walls.
where did I lump EOWC with the oil industry? Although after 17 violations, somewhere near 3 mill in fines in 2011 when all is said and done and we see an end to the South Orange/Newark lawsuit against them then I'd still would not be comfortable with them performing acidizised fracking treatments to the our water wells. So your thread title is "Are you scared of hydrofracking" and my answer would be yes...even when its close to home.
pixigirl said:
I guess you are not aware of the water situation in South
Orange.
I've been following your energetic protestations on the subject since you started your own thread on the subject, and I applaud your vigilance, but don't appreciate the condesention in your tone.
If the two subjects are indeed that closely related, I admit to having not connected the dots. I guess I'm just not the paranoid paragon I ought to be...
-s.
BTW: Please note that I've not posted on the EOW thread. Nor shall I.
I am sorry you are right this is your thread and I most certainly didnt intend to have a condescending tone. Fracking is a serious topic especially in light of recent events.
I most certainly meant no disrespect to you and I am sorry if it came across that way.
I most certainly meant no disrespect to you and I am sorry if it came across that way.
elspeth said:
rastro said:
elspeth said:
We changed this summer, when our furnace was flooded, to electric. All mechanisms, except the electric panel, are above the basement, and the panel was rebuilt and placed up high, with a new sump pump in the basement. (Thank goodness for flood insurance.) Today, a very cold day, saw the second floor of our 120 year old Victorian to be quite warm and toasty. Downstairs needed some warming up with spot electric heaters, but it became comfortable by about mid-morning. In all, to heat about 800 square feet upstairs and down (we don't heat one bedroom, or the attic) comes to about $450 per month. That's was the oil heat cost, at least. So we love our baseboards. If we dared, we'd also invest in a pellet stove, but our old house might not take well to it.
How do you think the electricity for your heaters is generated?
Rastro; What do you have against hydroelectric?
Unless you have your own dam in your backyard, or you live outside of NJ, I don't think a significant part of your electricity is generated by hydropower.
That' my point. New England has hyrdropwer replacing the aging, leaking, decrepit Yankee Nuclear power plant. Why can't NJ get in on that? Do we have to use fossil fuels? Yes, Native American lands were flooded, unfortunately, for Hydro-Quebec, but it's already happened and there's so much water why don't we tap into it?
Fracking is going to happen. The focus has to be on minimizing the damage of the practice because it is going to happen.
Jan 5, 2012 at 8:19am Edited
I don't have the figures at hand, but I supsect that if we put a dam every few hundered feet on every river in the country, we would not make much of a dent in our carbon needs. Once again, elspeth puts forth completely unrealistic solutions for carbon-based energy. In the other thread in Politics, i think it was solar, wind and biofuels. What's next - perpetual motion machines?
tjohn is right. Fracking is here to stay. I say it is a good thing. Gas prices are down like 40% in a year. It is domestic energy that will decrease reliance on foreign sources. It is rapidly displacing far-dirtier coal-fired electricity. It is a potential huge domestic job creator. Solutions will be found to minimize the downside. Accept it. Celebrate it.
tjohn is right. Fracking is here to stay. I say it is a good thing. Gas prices are down like 40% in a year. It is domestic energy that will decrease reliance on foreign sources. It is rapidly displacing far-dirtier coal-fired electricity. It is a potential huge domestic job creator. Solutions will be found to minimize the downside. Accept it. Celebrate it.
Jan 5, 2012 at 8:41am Edited
Let's just say I strongly differ with tjohn , ice, et al on the downside safety potential of this technology, and will do whatever I can to outlaw its use until I'm convinced that the O&G industry can be trusted not to f**k things up in the pursuit of bigger profits.
"Celebrate it"??? Not so fast, my friend...
-s.
"Celebrate it"??? Not so fast, my friend...
-s.
Soda,
My only point is that the practice of hydrofracking is not going to stop. The only hope is to regulate it enough so that environmental damage is minimized.
My only point is that the practice of hydrofracking is not going to stop. The only hope is to regulate it enough so that environmental damage is minimized.
Jan 5, 2012 at 9:00am Edited
Just announced on the news that as of 12/14/11, Colorado is establishing very strict laws limiting fracking.
http://earthandindustry.com/2011/12/colorado-fracking-fluid-disclosure-rules/
http://earthandindustry.com/2011/12/colorado-fracking-fluid-disclosure-rules/
Jan 5, 2012 at 9:27am Edited
Wow elspeth, wrong again. I must say you are consistent in you misinterpretations and overstatements.
The article simply says that Colorado has adopted a policy requiring disclosure of chemicals used in fracking, and contains comments such as:
"We believe oil and gas development can thrive while also meeting our high standards for protection of public health, water and the environment,” (Colorado Governor and signor of the law) Hickenlooper said.
"The oil and gas industry also supported the new framework agreed upon Tuesday."
"we have gained a model process to bring together industry, environmental advocates, and regulators to ensure energy development continues in keeping with protecting the environmental resources of our state.”
and the law permits companies to keep the exact mixes secret by filing a 'trade secret' document, so long as they disclose the chemical 'families' being used.
elspeth - do you even read the articles you post? Where does this article even insinuate that this is a "very strict law limiting fracking"? It actually sounds like a law which supports fracking wholeheartedly, while attempting to provide data with which regulators can assess environmental and health impacts. Would the industry prefer to keep all of its secrets? Probably. But if most states pass similar laws and all industry participants must comply, then it simply levels the playing field and will allow "oil and gas development to thrive", to use the Governor's words.
The article simply says that Colorado has adopted a policy requiring disclosure of chemicals used in fracking, and contains comments such as:
"We believe oil and gas development can thrive while also meeting our high standards for protection of public health, water and the environment,” (Colorado Governor and signor of the law) Hickenlooper said.
"The oil and gas industry also supported the new framework agreed upon Tuesday."
"we have gained a model process to bring together industry, environmental advocates, and regulators to ensure energy development continues in keeping with protecting the environmental resources of our state.”
and the law permits companies to keep the exact mixes secret by filing a 'trade secret' document, so long as they disclose the chemical 'families' being used.
elspeth - do you even read the articles you post? Where does this article even insinuate that this is a "very strict law limiting fracking"? It actually sounds like a law which supports fracking wholeheartedly, while attempting to provide data with which regulators can assess environmental and health impacts. Would the industry prefer to keep all of its secrets? Probably. But if most states pass similar laws and all industry participants must comply, then it simply levels the playing field and will allow "oil and gas development to thrive", to use the Governor's words.
Yup actually Hickenlooper who was a geologist is a supporter of gas drilling and fracking (big bucks for a state) but he also just slyly did a number on keeping disposal companies out of his state without having to actually say no to them. Once the list of chemicals are revealed there is no way they can do injection wells in Colorado which also has one of the strictes water quality,conservation and protection laws in the country. Smooth move by the man ....
http://www.blm.gov/nstc/WaterLaws/colorado2.html
http://www.blm.gov/nstc/WaterLaws/colorado2.html
pixigirl said:
Yup actually Hickenlooper who was a geologist is a supporter of gas drilling and fracking (big bucks for a state) but he also just slyly did a number on keeping disposal companies out of his state without having to actually say no to them. Once the list of chemicals are revealed there is no way they can do injection wells in Colorado which also has one of the strictes water quality,conservation and protection laws in the country. Smooth move by the man ....
http://www.blm.gov/nstc/WaterLaws/colorado2.html
Pixiegirl
Please clarify for me if you are against fracking or are you against injection wells. In other words if the disposal of waste products was environmentally practicable and there was strong oversight of ground operations would you support fracking?
Not a sarcastic question.
Jan 5, 2012 at 11:57am Edited
. I think she'll answer if she wants to answer. People interrupt me all the time when I am directing a question to someone in particular. :*
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/magazine/fracking-amwell-township.html?_r=1&hp
-s.