Is Bill Cosby Not Innocent until proven guilty?
The_Soulful_Mr_T said:
What's a cubit?
The thing on the end of the pool stick that you have to chalk before every play.
These celebrity scandals - far more now than in the past - have an upside and that is to temper our tendency to put halos on people who happen to be good at something, whether it be sinking a freethrow, telling a joke, or strumming the guitar.
tjohn said:
The_Soulful_Mr_T said:
What's a cubit?
45.72 centimeters
Right.
Nov 24, 2014 at 3:36am Edited
If these women accepted money for their silence decades ago, coming out a second time is a bit despicable IMO. Treating Cosby as a cash cow is vindictive. Especially as Cosby's career appeared to be on the upswing. No one knows at this point if monetary requests have been asked for or refused this time around.
These victims are now mature women. Somehow the sameness of their memories is odd to me considering how many years have gone by.
Where is Rev. Al in this situation? He stood by Jackson. Perhaps Cosby's attempt to urge Black families to shoulder some of the difficulties raising their children by encouraging education and better family planning rang a sour note?
Guilty or innocent, Cosby as Huxible was admired and loved by scores of Black and White families as a father role model. Trying to extinguish the good he accomplished because of what are allegations only and hearsay is an example of this new social media world we live in controls whatever goes "viral".
These victims are now mature women. Somehow the sameness of their memories is odd to me considering how many years have gone by.
Where is Rev. Al in this situation? He stood by Jackson. Perhaps Cosby's attempt to urge Black families to shoulder some of the difficulties raising their children by encouraging education and better family planning rang a sour note?
Guilty or innocent, Cosby as Huxible was admired and loved by scores of Black and White families as a father role model. Trying to extinguish the good he accomplished because of what are allegations only and hearsay is an example of this new social media world we live in controls whatever goes "viral".
I am not sure if all the women mentioned in the 2006 suit received money or if they were just named (as Jane Does) to corroborate the filing victims version of events. Did the ALL receive money? I have read multiple articles and cannot find anything definitive either way on that claim.
Also, the 2006 civil case was only brought about because the prosecutor wouldn't pursue the case. The plaintiff tried to press charges FIRST and went the civil route when the criminal route of justice was denied.
Also, the 2006 civil case was only brought about because the prosecutor wouldn't pursue the case. The plaintiff tried to press charges FIRST and went the civil route when the criminal route of justice was denied.
IM80 said:
If these women accepted money for their silence decades ago, coming out a second time is a bit despicable IMO. Treating Cosby as a cash cow is vindictive. Especially as Cosby's career appeared to be on the upswing. No one knows at this point if monetary requests have been asked for or refused this time around.
These victims are now mature women. Somehow the sameness of their memories is odd to me considering how many years have gone by.
Where is Rev. Al in this situation? He stood by Jackson. Perhaps Cosby's attempt to urge Black families to shoulder some of the difficulties raising their children by encouraging education and better family planning rang a sour note?
Guilty or innocent, Cosby as Huxible was admired and loved by scores of Black and White families as a father role model. Trying to extinguish the good he accomplished because of what are allegations only and hearsay is an example of this new social media world we live in controls whatever goes "viral".
If Cosby was a philanderer, I don't think it would be an issue. However, the complaints by these women are of sexual assault. That will be his legacy. And I somehow don't think these women are doing this for fame or fortune at this point.
IM80 said:
If these women accepted money for their silence decades ago, coming out a second time is a bit despicable IMO. Treating Cosby as a cash cow is vindictive. Especially as Cosby's career appeared to be on the upswing. No one knows at this point if monetary requests have been asked for or refused this time around.
These victims are now mature women. Somehow the sameness of their memories is odd to me considering how many years have gone by.
Where is Rev. Al in this situation? He stood by Jackson. Perhaps Cosby's attempt to urge Black families to shoulder some of the difficulties raising their children by encouraging education and better family planning rang a sour note?
Guilty or innocent, Cosby as Huxible was admired and loved by scores of Black and White families as a father role model. Trying to extinguish the good he accomplished because of what are allegations only and hearsay is an example of this new social media world we live in controls whatever goes "viral".
none of these women are seeking money. and as far as I know only one accepted money and she's remaining silent as part of the terms of the agreement.
It's now impossible to watch the Cosby show and not see it differently than when it originally aired. The guy played on OB/GYN in the show, for pete's sake. How difficult would it be to watch that program now and not be creeped out?
Its not just the women. Some in the media knew and enabled him by keeping the "secret."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/business/media/calling-out-bill-cosbys-media-enablers-including-myself.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/business/media/calling-out-bill-cosbys-media-enablers-including-myself.html
Nov 24, 2014 at 5:12am Edited
BG9's link which I just opened confirms what I fear is the new world of social brush fires which will take down the innocent as well as the guilty. We should all be afraid, very afraid, as people, entertainers and politicians expose themselves online. (No pun intended.)
"On Oct. 16, comedian Hannibal Buress took the stage in Philadelphia, Mr. Cosby’s hometown, and railed against the incongruity of his public moralizing and private behavior. He told the audience, “I want to just at least make it weird for you to watch ‘Cosby Show’ reruns.” (TV Land has since canceled those reruns, and both Netflix and NBC have shelved projects with Mr. Cosby.)
"He said Mr. Cosby has the “smuggest old black man public persona that I hate. Pull your pants up, black people. I was on TV in the ’80s. I can talk down to you because I had a successful sitcom.”
"And then he dropped the bomb. “Yeah, but you raped women, Bill Cosby. So, brings you down a couple notches.”
"Social media, a nonfactor when the allegations first surfaced, feasted on a clip of the set posted on Philadelphia magazine’s website.
"On the heels of Mr. Buress’s routine, Mr. Cosby’s public relations people asked his Twitter followers to make funny memes of the entertainer, and that promptly backfired in a massive way.
"With NBC and his other former partners having jettisoned him, Mr. Cosby’s lawyers were left alone in the bunker, playing Whac-a-Mole against charges from women that are popping up everywhere. And on Sunday, The Washington Post did a comprehensive recap of the charges.
"For decades, entertainers have been able to maintain custody of their image, regardless of how they conducted themselves. Many had entire crews of dust busters who came behind them and cleaned up their messes.
"Those days are history. It doesn’t really matter now what the courts or the press do or decide. When enough evidence and pushback rears into view, a new apparatus takes over, one that is viral, relentless and not going to forgive or forget."
One wonders what would happen today if a sitting president had sexual encounters with a female intern in his office young enough to be his daughter? There were other women making allegations back in the Clinton/Monica era too. True Clinton suffered public indignity even as he lied to the nation, but his career post Washington has been very successful and productive in many areas. He may even get another turn in the White House!
"On Oct. 16, comedian Hannibal Buress took the stage in Philadelphia, Mr. Cosby’s hometown, and railed against the incongruity of his public moralizing and private behavior. He told the audience, “I want to just at least make it weird for you to watch ‘Cosby Show’ reruns.” (TV Land has since canceled those reruns, and both Netflix and NBC have shelved projects with Mr. Cosby.)
"He said Mr. Cosby has the “smuggest old black man public persona that I hate. Pull your pants up, black people. I was on TV in the ’80s. I can talk down to you because I had a successful sitcom.”
"And then he dropped the bomb. “Yeah, but you raped women, Bill Cosby. So, brings you down a couple notches.”
"Social media, a nonfactor when the allegations first surfaced, feasted on a clip of the set posted on Philadelphia magazine’s website.
"On the heels of Mr. Buress’s routine, Mr. Cosby’s public relations people asked his Twitter followers to make funny memes of the entertainer, and that promptly backfired in a massive way.
"With NBC and his other former partners having jettisoned him, Mr. Cosby’s lawyers were left alone in the bunker, playing Whac-a-Mole against charges from women that are popping up everywhere. And on Sunday, The Washington Post did a comprehensive recap of the charges.
"For decades, entertainers have been able to maintain custody of their image, regardless of how they conducted themselves. Many had entire crews of dust busters who came behind them and cleaned up their messes.
"Those days are history. It doesn’t really matter now what the courts or the press do or decide. When enough evidence and pushback rears into view, a new apparatus takes over, one that is viral, relentless and not going to forgive or forget."
One wonders what would happen today if a sitting president had sexual encounters with a female intern in his office young enough to be his daughter? There were other women making allegations back in the Clinton/Monica era too. True Clinton suffered public indignity even as he lied to the nation, but his career post Washington has been very successful and productive in many areas. He may even get another turn in the White House!
Um he is being accused of drugging and raping women - good for social media for bringing it to light. This is nothing like Clinton/Lewinsky.
IM80 said:
BG9's link which I just opened confirms what I fear is the new world of social brush fires which will take down the innocent as well as the guilty. We should all be afraid, very afraid, as people, entertainers and politicians expose themselves online. (No pun intended.)
These women were assaulted. Should they remain quiet? Should they take the buyout and laugh their way to the bank?
Sexual encounter? How can you even compare a sexual encounter to multiple accusations of RAPE?IM80 said:
One wonders what would happen today if a sitting president had sexual encounters with a female intern in his office young enough to be his daughter? There were other women making allegations back in the Clinton/Monica era too. True Clinton suffered public indignity even as he lied to the nation, but his career post Washington has been very successful and productive in many areas. He may even get another turn in the White House!
I find it bizarre that anyone would be more dismayed about the social media frenzy over the accusations than they are that Bill Cosby drugged and raped women.
eliz said:
Um he is being accused of drugging and raping women - good for social media for bringing it to light. This is nothing like Clinton/Lewinsky.
I actually had this exact conversation with someone over the weekend. It's bad behavior and definitely brings to light questions about how people behave in positions of power - but at least on some level that relationship was consensual. Cosby's alleged victims were far from consenting. That is the critical difference.
The most powerful man in the world? A starry eyed female in the workplace at 21? Consensual? Really? You might say all young women who get involved with charming serial skirt chasers should have controlled the situation and just said No!
IM80 said:
The most powerful man in the world? A starry eyed female in the workplace at 21? Consensual? Really? You might say all young women who get involved with charming serial skirt chasers should have controlled the situation and just said No!
Agreeing to meet a serial skirt chaser is not consent to be drugged and raped. Maybe it was considered in this manner back in the 1950s, but certainly not in recent times.
That's why I bring up the element of power. Of course it's at play and has major influence, especially over young female employees. However, no, these two situations are NOT the same when it comes to consent. Not even close. Especially since Cosby's alleged victims were not even conscious enough to give it.
OMG - IM80 - you need a reality check. Starry eyed young intern is still a consenting adult.
That is very very very very different from drugging someone and raping them.
By the way - the women did not keep silent. Many came forward with accusations decades ago. I regret that they chose to take buyouts instead of prosecuting.
I do not understand why the media kept silent. I don't understand why supposed journalists who were aware of these issues ignored them. Apparently many many people in the entertainment industry knew the truth and chose to ignore it.
With all of these accusations flying, Cosby has never denied it. Cosby's attorney has not denied it. They have called the accusers names, and made lots of noise, but neither Cosby or any of his representatives have said "this is not true, I did not drug anyone. I did not rape anyone.
I remember many years ago the National Enquirer reported that Carol Burnett was seen drunk at a Hollywood restaurant. It was a lie. Carol Burnett grew up in a home with alcoholics and did not drink. She took them to court and sued them for millions. She won.
If these stories were not true Cosby's attorneys would be having a field day with slander suits. Except they are not suing anyone. They are busy issuing sound bites that sound like denials, but really are not.
That is very very very very different from drugging someone and raping them.
By the way - the women did not keep silent. Many came forward with accusations decades ago. I regret that they chose to take buyouts instead of prosecuting.
I do not understand why the media kept silent. I don't understand why supposed journalists who were aware of these issues ignored them. Apparently many many people in the entertainment industry knew the truth and chose to ignore it.
With all of these accusations flying, Cosby has never denied it. Cosby's attorney has not denied it. They have called the accusers names, and made lots of noise, but neither Cosby or any of his representatives have said "this is not true, I did not drug anyone. I did not rape anyone.
I remember many years ago the National Enquirer reported that Carol Burnett was seen drunk at a Hollywood restaurant. It was a lie. Carol Burnett grew up in a home with alcoholics and did not drink. She took them to court and sued them for millions. She won.
If these stories were not true Cosby's attorneys would be having a field day with slander suits. Except they are not suing anyone. They are busy issuing sound bites that sound like denials, but really are not.
Another...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/%E2%80%98law-and-order-svu%E2%80%99-actress-michelle-hurd-accuses-bill-cosby-of-inappropriate-touching/ar-BBfhwrN?ocid=ansWrap11
http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/%E2%80%98law-and-order-svu%E2%80%99-actress-michelle-hurd-accuses-bill-cosby-of-inappropriate-touching/ar-BBfhwrN?ocid=ansWrap11
DaveSchmidt said:
tjohn said:
The_Soulful_Mr_T said:
What's a cubit?
45.72 centimeters
Right.
Ahhhhh... at least two people who understand!
Who is this REALLY???
His silence speaks volumes. If I were a famous celebrity with a legacy like Mr. Cosby's I would speak up and clear my name.
As for Janice Dickinson, I am not sure how I feel about her, but I do know that when Entertainment Tonight wanted to interview her, she refused because she wanted to be paid for her time...REALLY?
I may be wrong on all of this but I am entitled to an opinion...different as anything.
As for Janice Dickinson, I am not sure how I feel about her, but I do know that when Entertainment Tonight wanted to interview her, she refused because she wanted to be paid for her time...REALLY?
I may be wrong on all of this but I am entitled to an opinion...different as anything.
It might be his PR people who are recommending he not respond. What can he really say, anyway??? If he adds his voice to theirs, it will blow up even more than it already has.
Interesting article about his media-enablers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/business/media/calling-out-bill-cosbys-media-enablers-including-myself.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/business/media/calling-out-bill-cosbys-media-enablers-including-myself.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
He has made a statement that he doesn't respond to "innuendo." What these women are saying isn't innuendo, their statements are outright accusations.
spontaneous said:
He has made a statement that he doesn't respond to "innuendo." What these women are saying isn't innuendo, their statements are outright accusations.
Yes, but the accusations (or events) pre-date the statutes of limitations, correct? If the accusations can never come to trial, it comes down to a he said/she (they) said situation. There's no way to prove a damn thing either way. Which is a situation that sucks for all concerned. He could talk till he's blue in the face... it won't do him any good, will it?
I'm not saying he deserves to be rescued from this situation, because it seems pretty clear he did what these women are saying he did. But really, at this point, what could he possibly say????
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