The wave of anti-Semitic physical attacks across the U.S. is sickening, and quite honestly, terrifying. I don't remember a time in my life when Jews have been so concerned about being attacked. It's happening in Los Angeles, Florida, Illinois, New Jersey, New York, Arizona, Utah. What's going on is not anti-Zionism, or anti-Israel - it's anti-Semitism. People are being attacked because they're Jews.
Is it part of that white supremacy movement? The tiki torch crowd were chanting, and there were horrid anti Semitic statements worn on at least one shirt at the Jan. 6 insurrection. The old Ku Klux Klan dogma. The Neo Nazi jerks.
It is sad and infuriating.
The incidents in Los Angeles and New York involved pro-Palestinians, waving Palestinian flags.
"Troubling footage emerged late Thursday showing pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian protesters clashing on a midtown Manhattan sidewalk, despite Israel and Gaza having reached a ceasefire agreement earlier in the day. Police confirmed that two commercial fireworks were thrown from a car and one person suffered minor burns."
"Wearing a Kippah in NYC always felt safer than anywhere else in the world," a prominent New York attorney told Fox News. "I'll never take mine off, but I will for the first time have to teach my children to be careful if they choose to wear theirs publicly," he said.
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An Englewood family was confronted by a pro-Palestinian demonstrator on their way home from synagogue on Sunday as their children – ages 9, 8 and 7 – were left "shaking and terrified for their life."
"A black BMW sedan pulled next to them and shouted, "FREE PALESTINE, F--- THE JEWS YOU MOTHER F---ERS. GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM, GET OUT OF HERE," the mother told Fox News. "They tried to pull over to another family who started running away. My children were shaking and terrified. My children who play outside my backyard all the time now refuse to be outside alone. They are shaken up and worried."
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"In Los Angeles, pro-Palestinian demonstrators hopped out of their vehicles passing a Beverly Grove restaurant on Tuesday and began singling out and attacking Jewish diners in a violent brawl that was caught on a bystander's camera. Video shows members of a car caravan flying Palestinian flags while driving by the sushi restaurant’s outdoor dining section while reportedly chanting "Death to Jews!"
"It’s a really scary time to be outwardly Jewish," Dina Shiner, who grew up attending the synagogue, told Fox. "This is Skokie. It’s a heavily Jewish town. What’s bothering me is that everyone is saying, ‘Oh, this is just about Israeli and Palestine, it’s not about Jews.' No, they’re targeting synagogues. That’s a direct target on Jews. This has nothing to do with Israel," she said.
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"A Chabad Community Center Synagogue in Salt Lake City was vandalized with a swastika drawn on the front door over the weekend.
"It's alarming to see how quickly misinformation and falsehoods spread online, and from a complex political issue in the Middle East, we've arrived at a place where Jews are debating whether they should walk in the streets of the United States with a visible Yarmulke on," Rabbi Avremi Zippel told Fox News."
Zippel said his community will "persevere through this as we have all phases of our storied history."
"But," he added, "the silence surrounding the cheapening of Jewish blood is deafening and downright sad."
Racists, antisemites and all kinds of bigots will find any excuse to target the people they hate.
The attacks on Jews in New York or LA because of what is happening in Israel and Gaza is no different than attacks on Asian-Americans because COVID started in China.
I went on Etsy today, I rarely go on that site, looking for some garden items, like a hammock, as they usually feature small companies offering crafty items. Scrolling a bit I was stunned to see a Palestinian flag for sale. It just seemed so out of context on a arty site in the garden section.
This thread is a great example of whataboutism. Israel is just an apartheid regime, every once in a while they get into a very asymmetrical conflict with Hamas and kill a few hundred women and children, and you guys talk about anti-semitic violence in the US. Well, let me tell you: they are both bad.
This thread is a great example of whataboutism. Israel is just an apartheid regime, every once in a while they get into a very asymmetrical conflict with Hamas and kill a few hundred women and children, and you guys talk about anti-semitic violence in the US. Well, let me tell you: they are both bad.
the description of the same NYC event in the NYT was different (not surprisingly) from that in the NY Post. It wasn't anti-semitic violence as much as it was fights breaking out between pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian demonstrators.
This thread is a great example of whataboutism. Israel is just an apartheid regime, every once in a while they get into a very asymmetrical conflict with Hamas and kill a few hundred women and children, and you guys talk about anti-semitic violence in the US. Well, let me tell you: they are both bad.
Maybe more of a segue. The clash in Israel was linked to coverage of protests and attacks here. We do have thread drifts as any conversation can have. I don't think anyone was using the occurrences here to justify what is happening in Israel. Or maybe I'm not seeing it.
As I said in an earlier post, I'm open to reading or watching any coverage and I don't shy away from the possibility that I have lost track of events in the past few years. There were topics that took most of my attention that have dissipated leaving me free to consider other issues. And if I have a bias, I will work hard to reconsider any position if it is not fair.
The apartheid is bad. And I try to think of how things might be better.
Is the goal to be like the USA, and how we "share" with our Native Americans? We have peace. This seems good. But what horrible things did we do to get to this peace? And what would we do now if Native Americans received external funding and rockets, and suicide bombers, and wanted NYC back?
I don't think our type of 'peace' with natives is a good goal. We are able to ignore our own historical genocide, theft of land, and recent "illegal settlements" with profitable pipeline, because the asymmetry in the USA is larger. Our land's natives don't have the external funding or support to even try to fight back.
Apartheid was the system in South Africa. Not only were the races separated by Blacks had no political rights whatsoever. Arabs in Israel have the right to vote and have their own political parties which have members of Parliament. In fact Netanyahu was negotiating with an Arab Party to include it in a coalition government and when he failed a leader of another Party was chosen to try to form a coalition government and he then negotiated with the same Arab Party. In fact his coalition was going to include Jewish Leftists, Jewish Rightists and Arabs all opposed to Netanyahu. It fell apart when the recent fighting began. Many believe that Netanyahu was behind the incidents that led to the conflict in order to remain in power.
I think using the term "apartheid" doesn't further the legitimate discussion or help the criticism of the Israeli Government and the very real oppression of Palestinians.
The persistent and systemic racism in this country does not make it an Apartheid Nation.
Apartheid was the system in South Africa. Not only were the races separated by Blacks had no political rights whatsoever. Arabs in Israel have the right to vote and have their own political parties which have members of Parliament. In fact Netanyahu was negotiating with an Arab Party to include it in a coalition government and when he failed a leader of another Party was chosen to try to form a coalition government and he then negotiated with the same Arab Party. In fact his coalition was going to include Jewish Leftists, Jewish Rightists and Arabs all opposed to Netanyahu. It fell apart when the recent fighting began. Many believe that Netanyahu was behind the incidents that led to the conflict in order to remain in power.
I think using the term "apartheid" doesn't further the legitimate discussion or help the criticism of the Israeli Government and the very real oppression of Palestinians.
Arabs in the West Bank and in Gaza live apart from the citizens of Israel who have those rights to vote in Israel. Even if some West Bank residents commute to work from the occupied territory into another part of the country, they don't have any rights of citizens.
the description of the same NYC event in the NYT was different (not surprisingly) from that in the NY Post. It wasn't anti-semitic violence as much as it was fights breaking out between pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian demonstrators.
One of the problems people have trying to understand the issues is the degree to which events are spun in U.S. media.
This is a video of the Jewish man being beaten by pro-Palestinians. He wasn't even at the rally - he was on his way. He was wearing a kippah. NYPD arrested 23 year old Waseem Awawdeh and charged him with a hate crime. They're looking for four others.
the description of the same NYC event in the NYT was different (not surprisingly) from that in the NY Post. It wasn't anti-semitic violence as much as it was fights breaking out between pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian demonstrators.
One of the problems people have trying to understand the issues is the degree to which events are spun in U.S. media.
This is a video of the Jewish man being beaten by pro-Palestinians. He wasn't even at the rally - he was on his way. He was wearing a kippah. NYPD arrested 23 year old Waseem Awawdeh and charged him with a hate crime. They're looking for four others.
I wasn't suggesting this didn't happen. But the framing of the Fox News story and that of the NY Times story are clearly very different. The Fox story reads as if the pro-Palestinian demonstrators launched unprovoked attacks on pro-Israel demonstrators. The Times story includes this passage:
Videos taken from the scene and shared on social media showed fights breaking out among small groups, with people throwing punches and stealing Israeli flags from demonstrators as jeers were exchanged. It was unclear what incited several of the individual clashes or who had started them, the police said.
I don't think it's unfair to say that a person who read only the Fox story would get a very different impression of what happened in NYC than someone who read the NYT story.
Arabs in the West Bank and in Gaza live apart from the citizens of Israel who have those rights to vote in Israel. Even if some West Bank residents commute to work from the occupied territory into another part of the country, they don't have any rights of citizens.
The West Bank and Gaza are not part of Israel. The entire world considers them to be Palestine. Israel, as a result of War, is the occupying power. If Israel decided to let the residents there vote in Israeli Elections the Palestinian Authority would vigorously oppose it as would the international community. It would be seen as an attempt to take over and obliterate Palestine. It would be the very definition of a War Crime.
Arabs living in Israel itself have the right to vote. Arabs living in Palestine, that is, Gaza and the West Bank, vote in their own elections when those are held. The PA cancelled the last elections.
Apartheid was the system in South Africa. Not only were the races separated by Blacks had no political rights whatsoever. Arabs in Israel have the right to vote and have their own political parties which have members of Parliament. In fact Netanyahu was negotiating with an Arab Party to include it in a coalition government and when he failed a leader of another Party was chosen to try to form a coalition government and he then negotiated with the same Arab Party. In fact his coalition was going to include Jewish Leftists, Jewish Rightists and Arabs all opposed to Netanyahu. It fell apart when the recent fighting began. Many believe that Netanyahu was behind the incidents that led to the conflict in order to remain in power.
I think using the term "apartheid" doesn't further the legitimate discussion or help the criticism of the Israeli Government and the very real oppression of Palestinians.
Arabs in the West Bank and in Gaza live apart from the citizens of Israel who have those rights to vote in Israel. Even if some West Bank residents commute to work from the occupied territory into another part of the country, they don't have any rights of citizens.
I think the problem is that when using a term like apartheid, some people think that it can only be used if the conditions perfectly match those of old South Africa. It used to be that way for the word fascist, or if making analogies to Hitler - someone was only a fascist if they can someone how be connected to an attempt to bring on another Holocaust.
That kind of attitude limits our ability to discuss situations which are close to something like apartheid. Clearly Israel has some apartheid-like qualities - I mean what can you call Gaza?
That kind of attitude limits our ability to discuss situations which are close to something like apartheid. Clearly Israel has some apartheid-like qualities - I mean what can you call Gaza?
Saying "apartheid-like" is not the same as saying it is an apartheid nation. It's like the discussion as to whether the US is a racist nation or just a nation with a lot of racism.
I called Gaza an occupied territory, but I was wrong since Israel removed is Army from Gaza. Gaza may be unique. It is a strip of land surrounded by another country ans subject to a blockade. I'm not sure there is any other place like that.
The crime of apartheid under the Apartheid Convention and Rome Statute consists of three primary elements: an intent to maintain a system of domination by one racial group over another; systematic oppression by one racial group over another; and one or more inhumane acts, as defined, carried out on a widespread or systematic basis pursuant to those policies.
Among the inhumane acts identified in either the Convention or the Rome Statute are “forcible transfer,” “expropriation of landed property,” “creation of separate reserves and ghettos,” and denial of the “the right to leave and to return to their country, [and] the right to a nationality.”
Does that not make the U.S.A. an Apartheid Nation. Are not all those factors absolutely true with respect to this country's policies toward Native Americans?
And as I was thinking further about "occupied territories" what would we call Puerto Rico, or for that matter Washington D.C.?
Arabs in the West Bank and in Gaza live apart from the citizens of Israel who have those rights to vote in Israel. Even if some West Bank residents commute to work from the occupied territory into another part of the country, they don't have any rights of citizens.
The West Bank and Gaza are not part of Israel. The entire world considers them to be Palestine. Israel, as a result of War, is the occupying power. If Israel decided to let the residents there vote in Israeli Elections the Palestinian Authority would vigorously oppose it as would the international community. It would be seen as an attempt to take over and obliterate Palestine. It would be the very definition of a War Crime.
Arabs living in Israel itself have the right to vote. Arabs living in Palestine, that is, Gaza and the West Bank, vote in their own elections when those are held. The PA cancelled the last elections.
I think that's only a partial explanation for the current status of the non-citizen Arabs who live within the borders claimed by Israel (Israel proper, occupied territory and whatever people want to call Gaza).
Israel exercises control over the land and the people there. Settlements are created and expanded in the West Bank, reducing the size of the territory that you could refer to as Palestine. Identity cards control movement, with some non-citizen Arabs being able to go into Jerusalem and others not (to use one example).
If people don't like the term "Apartheid", then there needs to be another description besides "not Apartheid", because it's not free movement and full civil rights, either.
Biden says we still need a "two-State solution". The extremists on both sides oppose that.
A Palestinian activist wrote an Op Ed in the NY Times a few days ago in which he argued that discussion of a two-State solution was just a way to perpetuate the oppression of the Arabs and that it would never happen. He called for a "one-State solution" encompassing the entire area.
Of course in such a State Jews would be a minority. There is no way they would accept that status in a Nation where the majority were Arabs and Muslim and the government was controlled by them.
Netanyahu says Israel is not a nation of all its citizens but "The Nation-State of the Jewish People". The extremists on the Israelie side favor a one-nation solution with the entire area from the Jordan River to the Ocean being a Jewish Nation with or without an Arab minority. The most extreme would expel all Arabs.
IMHO there will be either a two-State solution or continuation of the status quo in perpetuity. The latter is unacceptable, but is the former possible?
This was an interesting thread that just faded away, but re reading the posts I think it’s more informative of the situation in Israel leading up to this present crisis. If there’s any place on earth that needs a bigger wall it’s right there. Kinda like the 38 parallel.
This was an interesting thread that just faded away, but re reading the posts I think it’s more informative of the situation in Israel leading up to this present crisis. If there’s any place on earth that needs a bigger wall it’s right there. Kinda like the 38 parallel.
What's funny is that I still watch Bill Maher and he's had two recent shows discussing Israel again. Probably didn't comment again because of the lack of Bill enthusiasts.
My thinking is that many/most of the people protesting in favor of the Palestinian people feel sorry for and want justice for the abused Palestinians. These protesters do not know or understand the history since the UN founded Israel and Palestine. The Palestinian people have been mislead, lied to, cheated, robbed, betrayed and every other form of bad government. The protests should be against Hamas, the PLO, Hezbollah, and all the other Arab countries that have betrayed their Palestinian Arab brothers. The other Arab countries do not (except for some rare exceptions), accept Palestinian immigrants. Even now Egypt and Jordan have closed borders. But the Hamas "leaders" did get to escape to Qatar. Thus, no escape for the Palestinians who are the victims and pawns in some sort of evil chess match. Compare this to the European countries that took in refugees and aided Ukraine. I too wish the Palestinians an end to their suffering and a just peace with a two-state solution with honest honorable leaders. God help all in the Middle East.
The incidents in Los Angeles and New York involved pro-Palestinians, waving Palestinian flags.
https://nypost.com/2021/05/20/pro-palestinian-mob-reportedly-attacks-jewish-patrons-in-la/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/jews-attacked-one-person-burned-amid-pro-palestinian-protests-in-new-york-city/