Maplewood Fourth of July Circus - Please consider NOT supporting
carrielogo said:
.....and yes PETA does euthanize at their shelters. I would also personally get a pet from a shelter than a breeder and if I found an animal I would take them to a no-kill shelter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/pets-shelter-euthanization-rate_n_6612490.html
http://www.peta.org/blog/euthanize/
rastaquere said:
"' I don't disparage the kindly intentions of those opposed to animal acts. Although we can't change this year, people are free to vote with their pocketbooks and shun the circus." Wendy Lauter.
Agreed. Will do. While we're at it, I will vote with my pocketbook and boycott the paid fireworks section as well. It's embarrassing that on the fourth of July, Maplewood, a town that strives for integration, celebrates in de facto segregated galleries to watch the fireworks, because it costs (this year) $40 for a family of 4 to sit in the paid section. For what? Greener grass?
The 4th of July committee should take example from the Pride festival, and MapleWoodstock, who are both large, free events, where everyone can mix freely.
Ticket sales pay for the fireworks. The Township does not pay for the fireworks. If I recall correctly, South Orange gave up fireworks displays in its park, because of the expense.
The events you mention are daytime events with sponsors and vendors. I think anyone who wants to suggest an alternative funding method would be welcome to discuss that with the Committee, but it's not an easy task to pay for a fireworks show on the 4th of July.
Understood. If I recall correctly, they are food vendors at the fireworks already. The committee obviously could get sponsors as well. One comes to mind right away: JMF properties and the associated architectural firm. They get a tax break from the town, they get to sponsor the 4th of July fireworks!
What about combining 4th of July with MapleWoodstock? That would rock.
nohero said:
rastaquere said:Ticket sales pay for the fireworks. The Township does not pay for the fireworks. If I recall correctly, South Orange gave up fireworks displays in its park, because of the expense.
"' I don't disparage the kindly intentions of those opposed to animal acts. Although we can't change this year, people are free to vote with their pocketbooks and shun the circus." Wendy Lauter.
Agreed. Will do. While we're at it, I will vote with my pocketbook and boycott the paid fireworks section as well. It's embarrassing that on the fourth of July, Maplewood, a town that strives for integration, celebrates in de facto segregated galleries to watch the fireworks, because it costs (this year) $40 for a family of 4 to sit in the paid section. For what? Greener grass?
The 4th of July committee should take example from the Pride festival, and MapleWoodstock, who are both large, free events, where everyone can mix freely.
The events you mention are daytime events with sponsors and vendors. I think anyone who wants to suggest an alternative funding method would be welcome to discuss that with the Committee, but it's not an easy task to pay for a fireworks show on the 4th of July.
arturosfan I think you need to place a warning on that link! Yes, euthanasia can be the most humane option for animals that are suffering.
I'll ask again (though I should know better) since I saw a lot of generic posts the first time.... the issues with THIS circus are...? I'm not fighting a worldwide cause with Maplewoods celebration at its center, nor am I naive and shortsighted enough to ruin said celebration by withholding my wallet from it without anything but generic (and often patently false) claims from the likes of PETA of all places.
For the whole black/white fence debate... I'll respectfully ask that those who find it important and/or relevant, and decry some sort of perceived de facto segregation, look at the previous annual posts on the topic.
nohero said:
rastaquere said:Ticket sales pay for the fireworks. The Township does not pay for the fireworks. If I recall correctly, South Orange gave up fireworks displays in its park, because of the expense.
"' I don't disparage the kindly intentions of those opposed to animal acts. Although we can't change this year, people are free to vote with their pocketbooks and shun the circus." Wendy Lauter.
Agreed. Will do. While we're at it, I will vote with my pocketbook and boycott the paid fireworks section as well. It's embarrassing that on the fourth of July, Maplewood, a town that strives for integration, celebrates in de facto segregated galleries to watch the fireworks, because it costs (this year) $40 for a family of 4 to sit in the paid section. For what? Greener grass?
The 4th of July committee should take example from the Pride festival, and MapleWoodstock, who are both large, free events, where everyone can mix freely.
The events you mention are daytime events with sponsors and vendors. I think anyone who wants to suggest an alternative funding method would be welcome to discuss that with the Committee, but it's not an easy task to pay for a fireworks show on the 4th of July.
This!
rastaquere said:
The 4th of July committee should take example from the Pride festival, and MapleWoodstock, who are both large, free events, where everyone can mix freely.
Fireworks cost thousands of dollars. Where is the money to pay for free fireworks going to come from?
Now is the time to think of alternative entertainment for next year's event.
Ctrzaska As I have stated a few times now my issue with this particular circus is that the tent is super hot and the animals perform three times that day in that hot tent. They are then tied up or penned near where the fireworks are launched. The poor camel has to walk around in a loop all day carrying kids.
I just don't think circus life is easy or ideal for animals.
I would much rather have rides or a non-animal circus.
rastaquere said:
What about combining 4th of July with MapleWoodstock? That would rock.
No. There are other daytime events on the 4th of July in addition to the circus. The Fourth is a local family event, and not Maplewoodstock (which deservedly has it's own, dedicated weekend, to which I am looking forward, and inviting folks from out-of-town).
The Town does not pay for the 4th of July celebration (including circus). It's paid by ticket sales and I'm assuming some donations.
arturosfan said:
any circus with animals involved is modern day slavery. im surprised and disappointed maplewood pays good money to support animal torture in this day and age.
nohero said:
rastaquere said:No. There are other daytime events on the 4th of July in addition to the circus. The Fourth is a local family event, and not Maplewoodstock (which deservedly has it's own, dedicated weekend, to which I am looking forward, and inviting folks from out-of-town).
What about combining 4th of July with MapleWoodstock? That would rock.
Agreed. I love that we have major summer events every few weeks. It's part of what makes summer so special in our community!
Maplewoodstock makes money by charging vendors to set up their booths. Is that what people want for the 4th of July? And, if so, where would they do that because pretty much the whole area used for Maplewoodstock is "off limits" on July 4th since that's where they set off the fireworks.
I think Maplewoodstock is a completely different vibe than the old-time family fun day of The Fourth of July celebration. I've participated in past threads about the Fourth of July event, but would have to review them again. I would suggest a $10.00 per person all day pass and a $5.00 for fireworks only where you can only enter the prime viewing area at a certain time - 8pm. You could offer a family deal if you want to encourage families in the fenced area as opposed to groups of teenagers. Rides could cost extra? If you replace the circus with rides.....
arturosfan said:
joan_crystal said:yes on all of these . im vegan as well. human beings are destroying this planet. we are feeding our children meat filled with antibiotics and hormones. the industrial meat industry is making is depressed and fat and is killing the planet.
Question to those opposed to circuses employing non-human animals:
Are you also opposed to any or all of the following?
Horse racing
Dude ranches
Dog shows
Service animals
Raising chickens in the back yard
Eating meat or animal produced products such as eggs and dairy products
If not, I would like to know where you draw the line in defining animal cruelty that should be eliminated.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/06/30/how-much-your-meat-addiction-is-hurting-the-planet/
i dont care what you feed yourself, im worried about those that have no choice. we dont need to make animals suffer for our entertainment. its selfish.
yet i am also a realist, and i know im not going to change anyones mind. im not trying to convert anyone. i can sleep well at night and thats all that matters.
+! (although on the backyard chicken question I'm OK as long as they are well cared for pets who will live out there lives after their egg laying days are over!
What's wrong with questions like those is they are an attempt to make the compassionate person feel like a fraud if they don't go vegan all at once. It attacks them for wanting care for a group of animals because they just accidently stepped on an ant. People change slowly and are often willing to pick one issue to work on when they are deciding on other issues. These are choices and sacrifices the compassionate make everyday, and yes there are slips.
You are shouted at during a circus protest because someone thinks you have leather shoes on, and you plead "no they are made out of recycled bubble gum..." Its fair to let someone pick an issue and not berate them because they may have eaten that piece of Wedding cake prepared with those eggs from Costco, because they didn't want to hurt their grandmother's feeling.
We can do without animals in entertainment without sacrificing our 4th of July Celebration. Hopefully I can sit in front of an all day re-run of John Adams and read the Constitution to my cats if I can pull them out from under the bed during the fireworks. I will be forcing a rescue cat to pose with a small American flag to post on Petfinder to help her find a home. Please PM me if you think I have crossed a line!
Anyone and everyone is allowed to purchase tickets to the 4th of July Celebration.
Without the tickets there would be no fireworks.
nohero said:
rastaquere said:Ticket sales pay for the fireworks. The Township does not pay for the fireworks. If I recall correctly, South Orange gave up fireworks displays in its park, because of the expense.
"' I don't disparage the kindly intentions of those opposed to animal acts. Although we can't change this year, people are free to vote with their pocketbooks and shun the circus." Wendy Lauter.
Agreed. Will do. While we're at it, I will vote with my pocketbook and boycott the paid fireworks section as well. It's embarrassing that on the fourth of July, Maplewood, a town that strives for integration, celebrates in de facto segregated galleries to watch the fireworks, because it costs (this year) $40 for a family of 4 to sit in the paid section. For what? Greener grass?
The 4th of July committee should take example from the Pride festival, and MapleWoodstock, who are both large, free events, where everyone can mix freely.
The events you mention are daytime events with sponsors and vendors. I think anyone who wants to suggest an alternative funding method would be welcome to discuss that with the Committee, but it's not an easy task to pay for a fireworks show on the 4th of July.
Morganna: The purpose of my question was to attempt to determine if the objection to circuses employing non-human animals was limited to that single behavior or if it was more deeply rooted. It appears from the answers received thus far that for at least some on this thread, the objection goes a lot farther than being opposed to the mistreatment non-human animals may or may not receive when members of a circus troop. This information is helpful in trying to gauge the extent of the problem being expressed in this thread which for some might well include opposition to the pet show (caged and/or tethered animals being subjected to the extreme heat while having to remain confined for a significant period of time), the ice cream eating contest (ice cream uses animal-produced products), and the baking contest (again problem with the ingredients and their exploitation).
From your response, I would gather that you object to circuses but not to keeping animals as pets, imposed birth control for non-human animals, or keeping backyard chickens under certain conditions.
I suspect if the entire readership of MOL were polled on this question, there would be a wide variety of responses from very much in favor of the circus to being very much opposed and that reasons for opposition would run the gamut from opposed to circuses only to being opposed to anything that could be considered by the respondent to be mal-treatment of animals of any species.
$40.00 is a lot for many families to spend on fireworks, especially if they don't participate in the day-time activities! I think you would get more people paying to watch if the cost was $20.00 per family. It is a really great fireworks presentation. I think many families would still pay $40.00 for an all day pass and the opportunity to stake a claim to a really good viewing spot early. Thus, my pricing suggestion. Hopefully making the fireworks more affordable to families would integrate the event more. The fenced area would be more for families and the rowdy teenagers would stay out. You could have booths with vendors to earn money for the event and defray costs where the circus used to be.....
i dunno.. ive never heard of towns charging money to sit in a fenced area away from the poor/cheap/young people and look in the sky . if its too expensive they shouldnt have the fireworks. there are other towns that have them
Plenty of towns charge to attend fireworks. Your attempt to make it racial or class-based is a bit obnoxious.
One could make the same argument about any event that cost money. And it would make just as little sense.
It would be great if there were vendors in the area where the circus is now and that would allow for enough funds so the fireworks could be free and open to the public. I am sure the rowdy teenagers would probably stay to the periphery regardless of a fence.
What kind of vendors? What would they sell/display? What would they be charged? Who would staff them? It's not always easy to just "have vendors." Especially on a major national holiday.
The 4th of July Celebration vendors have traditionally been local scout troops that use their donut, coffee, hot dog, soda, chips sales as a fund raiser for the troop.
ParticleMan said:
Plenty of towns charge to attend fireworks. Your attempt to make it racial or class-based is a bit obnoxious.
One could make the same argument about any event that cost money. And it would make just as little sense.
yeah but this is just looking up in the sky for 15 minutes. i didnt say it was a class issue that was all you
Scully said:
Not to mention that human animals have a choice in working for the NFL etc.
wendy said:
Two VERY EXCELLENT points were made by two very astute (and non-anonymous) posters. In order of appearance:
ctrzaska said:And this one from Joan:
carrielogo said:I'm interested in THIS circus, not circuses in general. The few times I'd gone when my kids were younger, the animals seemed completely nonplussed.
I can post the links to various animal rights groups writing about circus animals....but it is very sad and often graphic. The factual proof, as several people have stated, is attending the circus and observing the animals themselves. It is just sad to sit in that boiling tent and think of the animals performing three times that day and then being tied up near where the fireworks are launched. Major downer to an otherwise great family day.
joan_crystal said:Kudos also to the reasoned and thoughtful response by a July 4th Committee member conveyed to Joan for posting to this board:
Question to those opposed to circuses employing non-human animals:
Are you also opposed to any or all of the following?
Horse racing
Dude ranches
Dog shows
Service animals
Raising chickens in the back yard
Eating meat or animal produced products such as eggs and dairy products
If not, I would like to know where you draw the line in defining animal cruelty that should be eliminated.
"After reading this thread, I contacted a member of the 4th of July Committee who sent the following reply and authorized me to post it this person's behalf. To the best of my knowledge, none of the current 4th of July Committee members is active on MOL."
"' I don't disparage the kindly intentions of those opposed to animal acts. Although we can't change this year, people are free to vote with their pocketbooks and shun the circus. The circus is paid a lump sum and will not suffer a loss but low attendance will register the sentiment and that could shape plans for the future. My research tells me that the worst offenses cited actually belong to a different circus also named Zerbini (it's a big and old family). And given that the dogs (mostly rescues), camels and ponies (NO elephants) spend a good part of the year living in Florida, we shouldn't anthropomorphize their getting too hot. Nevertheless, we will have to find ways to gauge public opinion (beyond the handful on MOL) and fairly reflect community sentiment about needs change and what to encourage. A step might be to write to the July 4 Committee, MCA, PO Box 3, Maplewood.'"
Wendy Lauter
Past Committee member on July 4 Committee and current volunteer
+1
ParticleMan said:
Plenty of towns charge to attend fireworks. Your attempt to make it racial or class-based is a bit obnoxious.
One could make the same argument about any event that cost money. And it would make just as little sense.
You are absolutely correct in every respect.
Wendy Lauter
(former committee member; current volunteer at events)
ParticleMan if you look at other events in Maplewood they don't have the level of obvious race division that the Maplewood Fourth of July event. Why do you think this is? Honestly Maplewood isn't the best set-up for a fire works display. Other towns have larger fields further away from homes. Looking at this list. Most places are free and if they charge it is $10.00 for a family or $3.00 or $5.00. Maplewood is one of the most expensive events (that doesn't include a baseball park or theme park). Ridgewood is the only place on this list that has similar pricing, but their event sounds much much bigger and kids under 5 are free. http://bestofnj.com/events/category/type/nj-fireworks-calendar
ParticleMan said:
Plenty of towns charge to attend fireworks. Your attempt to make it racial or class-based is a bit obnoxious.
One could make the same argument about any event that cost money. And it would make just as little sense.
+10
arturosfan said:
ParticleMan said:yeah but this is just looking up in the sky for 15 minutes. i didnt say it was a class issue that was all you
Plenty of towns charge to attend fireworks. Your attempt to make it racial or class-based is a bit obnoxious.
One could make the same argument about any event that cost money. And it would make just as little sense.
No, it wasn't.
arturosfan said:
i dunno.. ive never heard of towns charging money to sit in a fenced area away from the poor/cheap/young people and look in the sky . if its too expensive they shouldnt have the fireworks. there are other towns that have them
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.....and yes PETA does euthanize at their shelters. I would also personally get a pet from a shelter than a breeder and if I found an animal I would take them to a no-kill shelter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/05/pets-shelter-euthanization-rate_n_6612490.html