Montclair Education Panel: Let's Not Become Like South Orange-Maplewood

sac said:
FWIW, I just sent a message to Mila Jasey pointing to this thread and expressing my concern about it.

That's great, but why not to Codey who must hang with his fellow state senator Nia Gill?

xavier67 said:

sac said:
FWIW, I just sent a message to Mila Jasey pointing to this thread and expressing my concern about it.

That's great, but why not to Codey who must hang with his fellow state senator Nia Gill?

Only because I didn't have his contact info close at hand, but perhaps someone else does and can either share it here or send the link themself.

so_newstead said:
We have a PR problem, people like Montclair more than us. That's part of the reason they get extra money. It's our problem and we need to do something about it and fix it rather than just complain

@so_newstead

I think so_newstead is onto something with this. I say this because the other standout high-aid suburban district is Princeton, which has twice the prop evaluation of Montclair ($1.9 million per student), half the FRL-eligible kids, and yet gets $924 per student. Princeton and Montclair are basically the only two suburban districts to get Adjustment Aid too. Princeton is another town that people "like" and I think the legislature is very responsive to what they want.

Montclair also has a very long history of getting special treatment. I've read the Star-Ledger archives and found many instances of them suing or demanding more money. I kid you not, but Montclair used to get more money than Bloomfield.

In 1999 Montclair even got itself declared an "urban community" to get special aid that was intended for places like Camden.

CODEY, MONTCLAIR MAYOR PLAN EFFORTS TO RECOUP SCHOOL AID
Star-Ledger, The (Newark, NJ) - Wednesday, March 23, 1994
Author: TOWANDA UNDERDUE


Sen. Richard Codey (D-Essex) and Montclair Mayor James Bishop said yesterday they will lobby the Legislature and the Governor for more funds to prevent a "drastic" reduction of school services and a large tax increase in Montclair . The elected officials said they will request the $709,918 in state desegregation aid and $200,000 in state transition aid to ease the tax burden that Montclair residents will face in 1994-95. The loss in state aid could lead to a substantial school tax increase, said Bishop, who also serves on the Montclair Board of School Estimate. He added that taxpayers would have to raise 79.9 percent of the proposed $52.6 million budget, an 8.2 percent increase over 1993-94. " Montclair residents are paying 80 percent of the school budget," said Bishop. "This is a well-off district, but it is not a wealthy district." School Superintendent William Librera said at the Monday night board of education meeting that the district probably will not receive the anticipated state aid . The board is preparing for a $903,918 state aid reduction because Gov. Christie Whitman has proposed eliminating all desegregation aid to local school districts at a savings of $14 million, and reducing the transition aid that 265 school districts are receiving by 33 percent. Whitman made the proposals in an effort to control state spending during fiscal year 1995, which begins July 1, said Bob McHugh, a spokesman for the Governor. He added that desegregation aid has historically been used for computers and other improvements that do not relate to desegregation. "The complete elimination of desegregation aid represents less than one- third of 1 percent of the overall state aid package for education," McHugh said. " Montclair gets a relatively large amount, so it may be more greatly affected than other school districts, but the Governor is suggesting that school districts look at other ways to balance their budgets." But Codey said the state budget cuts will lead to dire consequences for Montclair residents. The Montclair school district is among the few districts that will lose both its desegregation and transition aid . He added that Montclair school officials have "correctly" spent past desegregation grants to racially balance schools . "This is one town that may say that the state tax cut has resulted in a shell game," said Codey, who believes that Montclair and other local school districts are suffering financially because of cuts at the state level. "Many people move to Montclair based on the fact that Montclair has an excellent school system," said Codey. "I invite the Governor to sit with parents and teachers and to learn about the programs here. Hopefully, this money will be restored." The anticipated loss in state aid has prompted Librera to call for the elimination of two assistant principals, a central office administrator, three guidance counselors, one nurse, three secretaries and 14 maintenance and custodial staff. Librera also has proposed reducing the workday for non-special education aides from six to 3.5 hours to prevent the district from paying benefits, and contracting privately for some child study services, maintenance functions and transportation aides. The school budget also includes a $5,000 reduction in high school co- curricular activities, a $10,000 reduction in high school athletics and a $10,000 reduction in clerical overtime.

The "Desegregation Aid" that Montclair got until 1994 was a gift from Jim Florio in order to get Montclair's legislators to vote for Florio's sweeping tax increases and redistribution of state aid. South Orange-Maplewood didn't get it. (Nor did we get the special "Density Aid" that only went to Bergen County districts.)

Here's Montclair going urban.

Psssssssst! Montclair is 'urban aid ' community - More needy children mean state aid hike
Star-Ledger, The (Newark, NJ) - Wednesday, August 18, 1999
Author: Tom Hester and Rebecca Goldsmith, Star-Ledger Staff

Montclair , known for its wide range of economic and racial diversity, has been given an unexpected but - officials insist - welcome tag by the state . Local officials were surprised to learn yesterday that the Essex County suburb of 38,000 people has been named one of the state 's 56 "urban aid " communities, a designation that stands to gain the township several million dollars in extra state aid . The designation is so new, neither state nor Montclair officials could say exactly how much extra aid the township will receive this year. Montclair officials were not even aware of the designation until they were told by Star-Ledger reporters. Montclair qualified for the designation, joining poorer neighboring cities such as Newark, Irvington, and East Orange, based mainly on a growing number of welfare-dependent children, about 430 out of a population of 39,103, officials said. Of the township's 14,554 households, about 500 receive public assistance. The extra money can be used for any municipal purposes, but not for schools . Township Manager Terence J. Reidy said he welcomes the designation. "This is wonderful news for Montclair for a variety of reasons," he said. "It guarantees Montclair will getstate aid as opposed to applying for it. I do not know the exact amount, hopefully we will know next week, but I expect it will be in the six figures." Reidy said the designation also means the township will be eligible for extra state and federal aid for housing and economic development. "Both are part of our strategic development plan," he said. Mayor William Farlie also greeted the designation warmly. "That is terrific," he said. "I think whenever you receive a grant from the government you are never embarrassed." The mayor said Montclair is unique in New Jersey because its residents span a wide economic range. The median household income in Montclair was $52,442, according to 1990 Census data, but Farlie said a recent survey showed more senior citizens are struggling just to put food on the table than officials had anticipated. " Montclair is in a funny position. We probably have the broadest range of economic mix of any city in New Jersey," the mayor said. "That is probably one of our greatest assets as a community." Montclair receives $3.8 million in regular state aid . Belleville, an urban aid community with a population of 34,213, receives $7.6 million in regular and special urban aid . Bloomfield, another urban aid community, with 45,061 residents, receives a total $7.6 million. Newark receives $100 million, East Orange $24 million and Irvington $13 million. Other urban aid communities in New Jersey include Bayonne, Brick, Carteret, Elizabeth, Hillside, Jersey City, Kearny, New Brunswick, Old Bridge, Perth Amboy, Phillipsburg, Plainfield, Rahway, Roselle and Woodbridge. Montclair community leaders have publicly embraced the township's diversity and sought to bring residents together. A township councilman recently decried the use of the designation "Upper Montclair " - a section of town where homes can be valued at $260,000 or higher - saying it divides the community. In 1977, a magnet school system helped integrate the neighborhood schools . Some real estate brokers and business people said the "urban aid " designation is a mixed blessing, bringing needed money but a negative connotation. "I think the name may not sound so good, but when you go behind the name . . . then there's the positive," said Denise Riordan, vice president of Schweppe & Co. "This is a very beautiful community and 'urban' just sounds too harsh." But the professional township boosters also said the designation will help the town financially and might even bring comfort to some well-off residents who moved to Montclairbecause it was the closest community to their former city neighborhoods. "A lot of people that come here from the city are kind of skittish about making the transition to the suburbs anyway," said Gloria Falzer of Burgdorff ERA. Irene Rottenberg, a business owner in town, said she was initially "dismayed" at hearing of the urban designation, but added that the state help is crucial for the poorest residents: "It may turn out to be a huge blessing."

That happens here, with not not just white students leaving for private schools after middle school, but also African American students.

Trans_Parent said:

krnl said:
Montclair Education Panel: Let's Not Become Like South Orange-Maplewood
The school district’s ongoing racial disparities are a “wake up call” for Montclair, AGAP says.I rarely open PATCH, but did today and here is the link to what Montclair is saying about Maplewood:
http://patch.com/new-jersey/maplewood/montclair-education-panel-lets-not-become-south-orange-maplewood-0

Montclair has far larger problems, because so many of its white and Asian families abandon its school district for private schools, including Montclair Kimberly Academy and others.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has less of an achievement gap within its schools simply because it's unable to measure the true achievement gap across all students residing in Montclair.

For 2006-2010, South Orange sent more kids to private school (as a percentage) than Montclair.

http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/12/0202/2111/

The same thing happens in Maplewood/South Orange. Study the demographics at the elementary level, middle school level, and high school.

Trans_Parent said:

krnl said:
Montclair Education Panel: Let's Not Become Like South Orange-Maplewood
The school district’s ongoing racial disparities are a “wake up call” for Montclair, AGAP says.I rarely open PATCH, but did today and here is the link to what Montclair is saying about Maplewood:
http://patch.com/new-jersey/maplewood/montclair-education-panel-lets-not-become-south-orange-maplewood-0

Montclair has far larger problems, because so many of its white and Asian families abandon its school district for private schools, including Montclair Kimberly Academy and others.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has less of an achievement gap within its schools simply because it's unable to measure the true achievement gap across all students residing in Montclair.

yahooyahoo said:
The same thing happens in Maplewood/South Orange. Study the demographics at the elementary level, middle school level, and high school.

Trans_Parent said:

krnl said:
Montclair Education Panel: Let's Not Become Like South Orange-Maplewood
The school district’s ongoing racial disparities are a “wake up call” for Montclair, AGAP says.I rarely open PATCH, but did today and here is the link to what Montclair is saying about Maplewood:
http://patch.com/new-jersey/maplewood/montclair-education-panel-lets-not-become-south-orange-maplewood-0

Montclair has far larger problems, because so many of its white and Asian families abandon its school district for private schools, including Montclair Kimberly Academy and others.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has less of an achievement gap within its schools simply because it's unable to measure the true achievement gap across all students residing in Montclair.

Nope, wrong again.

According to the data posted above, percent in Private School:

For High School;

Montclair: 14.8

SO: 10.1

Maplewood: 12.3

Elementary;

Montclair: 11.1

SO: 16.5

Maplewood: 8.4

So in South Orange, students actually return to the public schools in large numbers by High School, and in neither town does the percentage of students in private High School exceed Montclair.

Indeed, the 10 - 12% Private high School penetration has been very consistent for the 25 years I have lived here. the issue is that as each new generation reaches each age, they hear about the people who are leaving the system, and get the impression it is a new trend. It is not.

By the way, the 11.1% in private school in Montclair is hardly, "far larger problems, because so many of its white and Asian families abandon its school district for private schools."

RobB said:
For 2006-2010, South Orange sent more kids to private school (as a percentage) than Montclair.
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/12/0202/2111/

Very interesting data. Thanks for the link, RobB.

Max-

Break down the demographics and get back to us.

max_weisenfeld said:

yahooyahoo said:
The same thing happens in Maplewood/South Orange. Study the demographics at the elementary level, middle school level, and high school.

Trans_Parent said:

krnl said:
Montclair Education Panel: Let's Not Become Like South Orange-Maplewood
The school district’s ongoing racial disparities are a “wake up call” for Montclair, AGAP says.I rarely open PATCH, but did today and here is the link to what Montclair is saying about Maplewood:
http://patch.com/new-jersey/maplewood/montclair-education-panel-lets-not-become-south-orange-maplewood-0

Montclair has far larger problems, because so many of its white and Asian families abandon its school district for private schools, including Montclair Kimberly Academy and others.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has less of an achievement gap within its schools simply because it's unable to measure the true achievement gap across all students residing in Montclair.

Nope, wrong again.
According to the data posted above, percent in Private School:
For High School;
Montclair: 14.8
SO: 10.1
Maplewood: 12.3


Elementary;
Montclair: 11.1
SO: 16.5
Maplewood: 8.4
So in South Orange, students actually return to the public schools in large numbers by High School, and in neither town does the percentage of students in private High School exceed Montclair.
Indeed, the 10 - 12% Private high School penetration has been very consistent for the 25 years I have lived here. the issue is that as each new generation reaches each age, they hear about the people who are leaving the system, and get the impression it is a new trend. It is not.

Max:

The numbers don't treat Maplewood/SO as one district. The data is skewed.
Maplewood contains most of the schools in the district including the high school.

If you look at the main elementary schools contained in SO (South Mountain & Marshall), my guess is that a higher percentage of kids zoned for South Mountain go to private school than the other elementary schools.

max_weisenfeld said:

yahooyahoo said:
The same thing happens in Maplewood/South Orange. Study the demographics at the elementary level, middle school level, and high school.

Trans_Parent said:

krnl said:
Montclair Education Panel: Let's Not Become Like South Orange-Maplewood
The school district’s ongoing racial disparities are a “wake up call” for Montclair, AGAP says.I rarely open PATCH, but did today and here is the link to what Montclair is saying about Maplewood:
http://patch.com/new-jersey/maplewood/montclair-education-panel-lets-not-become-south-orange-maplewood-0

Montclair has far larger problems, because so many of its white and Asian families abandon its school district for private schools, including Montclair Kimberly Academy and others.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has less of an achievement gap within its schools simply because it's unable to measure the true achievement gap across all students residing in Montclair.

Nope, wrong again.
According to the data posted above, percent in Private School:
For High School;
Montclair: 14.8
SO: 10.1
Maplewood: 12.3


Elementary;
Montclair: 11.1
SO: 16.5
Maplewood: 8.4
So in South Orange, students actually return to the public schools in large numbers by High School, and in neither town does the percentage of students in private High School exceed Montclair.
Indeed, the 10 - 12% Private high School penetration has been very consistent for the 25 years I have lived here. the issue is that as each new generation reaches each age, they hear about the people who are leaving the system, and get the impression it is a new trend. It is not.

yahooyahoo said:
Max:

The numbers don't treat Maplewood/SO as one district. The data is skewed.
Maplewood contains most of the schools in the district including the high school.
If you look at the main elementary schools contained in SO (South Mountain & Marshall), my guess is that a higher percentage of kids zoned for South Mountain go to private school than the other elementary schools.

max_weisenfeld said:

yahooyahoo said:
The same thing happens in Maplewood/South Orange. Study the demographics at the elementary level, middle school level, and high school.

Trans_Parent said:

krnl said:
Montclair Education Panel: Let's Not Become Like South Orange-Maplewood
The school district’s ongoing racial disparities are a “wake up call” for Montclair, AGAP says.I rarely open PATCH, but did today and here is the link to what Montclair is saying about Maplewood:
http://patch.com/new-jersey/maplewood/montclair-education-panel-lets-not-become-south-orange-maplewood-0

Montclair has far larger problems, because so many of its white and Asian families abandon its school district for private schools, including Montclair Kimberly Academy and others.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has less of an achievement gap within its schools simply because it's unable to measure the true achievement gap across all students residing in Montclair.

Nope, wrong again.
According to the data posted above, percent in Private School:
For High School;
Montclair: 14.8
SO: 10.1
Maplewood: 12.3


Elementary;
Montclair: 11.1
SO: 16.5
Maplewood: 8.4
So in South Orange, students actually return to the public schools in large numbers by High School, and in neither town does the percentage of students in private High School exceed Montclair.
Indeed, the 10 - 12% Private high School penetration has been very consistent for the 25 years I have lived here. the issue is that as each new generation reaches each age, they hear about the people who are leaving the system, and get the impression it is a new trend. It is not.

So they are looking at where the schools are located rather than where the students live? That's silly (and skewed as you say.)