No 45

Here's a few related articles:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/08/22/swastika-45-protest-art-elicits-visceral-reactions/579653001/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/13/swastika-use-rise-nazis-trump-charlottesville-violence/104488402/

ml1 said:

to a great extent Trump is a symptom, not the problem.  If he resigned tomorrow, there would still be tens of millions of people looking for someone similar to "shake things up."  

I think you are correct.  Trump is the avatar...the embodiment of the collective emotions/frustration of a segment of the American population who  - rightfully or wrongfully - felt marginalized.    Removing Trump from office may eliminate the avatar but not the energy that led to his rise.   It is, I believe, a dynamic of social physics.  He sparks more energy within that segment every time he takes an action that frustrates the "liberal elites" who are viewed as the group that caused their marginalization.  There is a revenge motive in operation.  Similarly, the more energy others expend in chastising or ridiculing those who invested in the avatar, the greater the emotional reaction and solidification among his supporters.  (e.g. the rallying around the Deplorable tag) It's all about emotion, not reason.  The logic of positions or whether we all lose in the end aren't the prime considerations.

Norman_Bates said:

ml1 said:

to a great extent Trump is a symptom, not the problem.  If he resigned tomorrow, there would still be tens of millions of people looking for someone similar to "shake things up."  

I think you are correct.  Trump is the avatar...the embodiment of the collective emotions/frustration of a segment of the American population who  - rightfully or wrongfully - felt marginalized.    Removing Trump from office may eliminate the avatar but not the energy that led to his rise.   It is, I believe, a dynamic of social physics.  He sparks more energy within that segment every time he takes an action that frustrates the "liberal elites" who are viewed as the group that caused their marginalization.  There is a revenge motive in operation.  Similarly, the more energy others expend in chastising or ridiculing those who invested in the avatar, the greater the emotional reaction and solidification among his supporters.  (e.g. the rallying around the Deplorable tag) It's all about emotion, not reason.  The logic of positions or whether we all lose in the end aren't the prime considerations.

None of which belies the fact that the critical objective for liberals, Democrats, progressives and all other of us frustrated in our own way with the Trump horror show  is to take back control of Congress as soon as possible. I don't care how many millions are frustrated or feel marginalized. Their frustration doesn't justify the damage being done to the American democracy, economy, ecology and good will around the world. One hopes that a Democratic Congress can mitigate some of this heinous lunacy. This must be the sole focus of progressives and others over the next 7 months.

I'd like to see the Dems take back Congress but if they do so with only a bare majority I do not think they will accomplish much. They can try to put a brake on Trump's worst policies and they can investigate but Trump will still have the power of the Presidency including the veto and will constantly be attacking the Congress, using it as a foil.

The Republicans won control of Congress in 1994 and Clinton won re-election in 1996. The Dems took control of Congress in 2002 and Bush won re-election in 2004. (I think I have that right.)

Turns out my memory was faulty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_elections,_2002

People wonder how it was that ordinary Germans allowed the Nazis to rise to power. I am reminded of the famous Edmund Burke quote * about the rise of evil but invoking that would incorrectly suggest that these lawmakers are "good men".

NPR: Tennessee Lawmakers Decline — Again — To Advance Measure Denouncing Neo-Nazis

Don't want to offend anyone but here is a picture of folks protesting down in Tennessee.  I know its hard to see the word "Nazi" without thinking about the Third Reich but it is what it is.

Klinker said:
People wonder how it was that ordinary Germans allowed the Nazis to rise to power. I am reminded of the famous Edmund Burke quote * about the rise of evil but invoking that would incorrectly suggest that these lawmakers are "good men".

What Burke said: “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.”

What Mill said a century later: “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”

As Marx once wrote: “BrainyQuote ist das Opium des Volkes.”

DaveSchmidt said:

Klinker said:
People wonder how it was that ordinary Germans allowed the Nazis to rise to power. I am reminded of the famous Edmund Burke quote * about the rise of evil but invoking that would incorrectly suggest that these lawmakers are "good men".

What Burke said: “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” What Mill said a century later: “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” As Marx once wrote: “BrainyQuote ist das Opium des Volkes.”

Good thing I didn't invoke it then

As Jesus Christ said, it is better to misattribute a quote then to......

As Tevya said

"You are both right". 

Klinker said:
Don't want to offend anyone but here is a picture of folks protesting down in Tennessee.  I know its hard to see the word "Nazi" without thinking about the Third Reich but it is what it is.

Give it up. You made your point dozens of posts ago.  You think we don't understand - so you keep trying to explain. We get it. You're ANTI-nazi. You really really don't like nazis! So why in the  world should we mind seeing swastikas in your posts!?!? 

We do. 

This should go well. 

dave said:

This should go well. 

Not to state the obvious, but this guy is an embarrassment.

The madness of the Middle East is on full display.  Now, we are going to engage in direct conflict with Russia because Russia will certainly target our cruise missiles.

So far in Syria, our actions have done nothing but prolong the conflict and increased the dying and suffering.