What does Putin want (and whatabout it)
nan said:
Moving on we have Dave Schmidt’s posting of war criminal George W. Bush’s support of preemptive action, which I guess means DaveS is trying to compare this excuse to rationale for the Russian invasion. The big difference is that Bush’s invasion was based on a lie and Putin had real concerns from 2014 onward with the US backed Ukraine government coup escalated more over time.
The direct cause of Bush’s 2002 National Security Strategy was the terrorism of Sept. 11, 2001, and it was issued during the war in Afghanistan.
Well they fought to the last Ukrainian so now they might be coming for your families. All for a stupid war that was totally preventable.
U.S. could allow for American troop deployment to Ukraine - Democratic House leader Jeffries
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-could-allow-american-troop-072400455.html
And Macron has been talking about sending troops for a few weeks also. this news report also mentions that Russia may be using "chemical weapons" which might mean a major false flag is coming to justify sending troops.
I'm sure they won't send any before the election is over though.
The goal of denazification was preventable? So you’re saying there weren’t any Nazis? I’m so confused!
jamie said:
The goal of denazification was preventable? So you’re saying there weren’t any Nazis? I’m so confused!
I'm starting to think your confusion is deliberate.
The Ukrainians/west/NATO have lost this war but the West wants to keep fighting because that's what neocons do. So, hi ho it's off to war we go --- after the election. Or maybe not. Hopefully I'm wrong this time.
The Russians are really really getting pissed off.
Meanwhile Switzerland is planning a Ukraine peace conference and not inviting Russia.
Diplomacy in the West is dead, along with reality. We really might have WWIII.
Time to que up the Tom Leherer
https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1787489429122125921
nan said:
Well they fought to the last Ukrainian so now they might be coming for your families. All for a stupid war that was totally preventable.
U.S. could allow for American troop deployment to Ukraine - Democratic House leader Jeffries
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-could-allow-american-troop-072400455.html
Jeffries didn’t say anything about deployment to Ukraine. He was talking about deployment to NATO allies if Putin succeeds in Ukraine and doesn’t stop there.
House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said the United States must continue supporting Ukraine to prevent a broader war, and he blamed the delay in aiding the fight against Russia on a "pro-Putin faction" within the Republican Party.
"We can't let Ukraine fall because if it does, then there's a significant likelihood that America will have to get into the conflict — not simply with our money, but with our servicewomen and our servicemen," Jeffries said in an interview with Norah O'Donnell for 60 Minutes.
Jeffries explained that he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin seeks to recreate the Soviet Union, and in doing so, will threaten NATO allies. Putin's invasion of neighboring Georgia did not stop there, Jeffries pointed out, nor did his takeover of Crimea in eastern Ukraine.
"Are we to believe that in the face of this kind of consistent aggression that if we allow Vladimir Putin to succeed in Ukraine that he's only going to stop in Ukraine? Of course not," Jeffries said.
nan said:
Time to que up the Tom Leherer
https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1787489429122125921
Lehrer would have definitely had a field day with a country that threatened nuclear retaliation if other countries sent troops to Ukraine just like it did.
nan said:
jamie said:
The goal of denazification was preventable? So you’re saying there weren’t any Nazis? I’m so confused!
I'm starting to think your confusion is deliberate.
The Ukrainians/west/NATO have lost this war but the West wants to keep fighting because that's what neocons do. So, hi ho it's off to war we go --- after the election. Or maybe not. Hopefully I'm wrong this time.
The Russians are really really getting pissed off.
Meanwhile Switzerland is planning a Ukraine peace conference and not inviting Russia.
Diplomacy in the West is dead, along with reality. We really might have WWIII.
ok so there is no Nazi problem - that was just false front to rile the Russian people and justify the slaughter of thousands of young Russian conscripts. At least you’re owning up to it.
jamie said:
nan said:
jamie said:
The goal of denazification was preventable? So you’re saying there weren’t any Nazis? I’m so confused!
I'm starting to think your confusion is deliberate.
The Ukrainians/west/NATO have lost this war but the West wants to keep fighting because that's what neocons do. So, hi ho it's off to war we go --- after the election. Or maybe not. Hopefully I'm wrong this time.
The Russians are really really getting pissed off.
Meanwhile Switzerland is planning a Ukraine peace conference and not inviting Russia.
Diplomacy in the West is dead, along with reality. We really might have WWIII.
ok so there is no Nazi problem - that was just false front to rile the Russian people and justify the slaughter of thousands of young Russian conscripts. At least you’re owning up to it.
Ukraine has a huge Nazi problem.
Here is another problem I warned you about a while ago.
Oh, and remember how so many of you were opposed to Georgia passing a FARA law? Looks like it's too late.
DaveSchmidt said:
nan said:
Well they fought to the last Ukrainian so now they might be coming for your families. All for a stupid war that was totally preventable.
U.S. could allow for American troop deployment to Ukraine - Democratic House leader Jeffries
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-could-allow-american-troop-072400455.html
Jeffries didn’t say anything about deployment to Ukraine. He was talking about deployment to NATO allies if Putin succeeds in Ukraine and doesn’t stop there.
House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said the United States must continue supporting Ukraine to prevent a broader war, and he blamed the delay in aiding the fight against Russia on a "pro-Putin faction" within the Republican Party.
"We can't let Ukraine fall because if it does, then there's a significant likelihood that America will have to get into the conflict — not simply with our money, but with our servicewomen and our servicemen," Jeffries said in an interview with Norah O'Donnell for 60 Minutes.
Jeffries explained that he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin seeks to recreate the Soviet Union, and in doing so, will threaten NATO allies. Putin's invasion of neighboring Georgia did not stop there, Jeffries pointed out, nor did his takeover of Crimea in eastern Ukraine.
"Are we to believe that in the face of this kind of consistent aggression that if we allow Vladimir Putin to succeed in Ukraine that he's only going to stop in Ukraine? Of course not," Jeffries said.
This is how it can start. In France, Macron is sending in French Foreign Legion troops. People won't be upset because evidently they are not even French. But, he's been talking about sending in actual French troops.
Sometimes they send in trial balloon groups first.
nan said:
In France, Macron is sending in French Foreign Legion troops. People won't be upset because evidently they are not even French.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-french-troops-russia-ukraine-deployed-994039088319
DaveSchmidt said:
nan said:
In France, Macron is sending in French Foreign Legion troops. People won't be upset because evidently they are not even French.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-french-troops-russia-ukraine-deployed-994039088319
Well, we will see. Macron HAS been talking about sending troops. Hopefully someone gets some sense into his head before that happens.
nan said:
Oh, and remember how so many of you were opposed to Georgia passing a FARA law? Looks like it's too late.
A guy who's clearly trying to sell books: Russophobia: Propaganda in International Politics
Ask any Ukrainian if they fear Russia - there's a good chance they do. When anyone is busy annihilating your country - it does produce a certain fear that your family may be killed.
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And we have the nuke sabre rattling again: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32202
Russia will respond with a nuclear strike on London, Paris, and Washington if Western troops are sent to Ukraine, Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev said, in one of his now customary social media rants.
“Sending their troops to the territory of Ukraine will entail their countries' direct entry into the war, to which we will have to respond. And, unfortunately, not on the territory of Ukraine. There will be a global catastrophe,” Medvedev wrote on Telegram on Monday, May 6.
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However - Russia sending troops to Ukraine should be met with no resistance.
jamie said:
nan said:
Oh, and remember how so many of you were opposed to Georgia passing a FARA law? Looks like it's too late.
A guy who's clearly trying to sell books: Russophobia: Propaganda in International Politics
Ask any Ukrainian if they fear Russia - there's a good chance they do. When anyone is busy annihilating your country - it does produce a certain fear that your family may be killed.
---------------------------------------------------
And we have the nuke sabre rattling again: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32202
Russia will respond with a nuclear strike on London, Paris, and Washington if Western troops are sent to Ukraine, Russian Security Council Deputy Chairman Dmitry Medvedev said, in one of his now customary social media rants.
“Sending their troops to the territory of Ukraine will entail their countries' direct entry into the war, to which we will have to respond. And, unfortunately, not on the territory of Ukraine. There will be a global catastrophe,” Medvedev wrote on Telegram on Monday, May 6.
------------------------
However - Russia sending troops to Ukraine should be met with no resistance.
You need some fresh perspectives.
Why did you pick out Diesen's old book (which looks interesting) when he has a new one which looks terrific and relevant. I think I'm going to order it:
The Ukraine War & the Eurasian World Order
Five hundred years of Western hegemony has ended, while the global majority’s aspiration for a world order based on multipolarity and sovereign equality is rising. This incisive book addresses the demise of liberal hegemony, though pointing out that a multipolar Westphalian world order has not yet taken shape, leaving the world in a period of interregnum. A legal vacuum has emerged, in which the conflicting sides are competing to define the future order.
NATO expansionism was an important component of liberal hegemony as it was intended to cement the collective hegemony of the West as the foundation for a liberal democratic peace. Instead, it dismantled the pan-European security architecture and set Europe on the path to war without the possibility of a course correction. Ukraine as a divided country in a divided Europe has been a crucial pawn in the great power competition between NATO and Russia for the past three decades.
The war in Ukraine is a symptom of the collapsing world order. The war revealed the dysfunction of liberal hegemony in terms of both power and legitimacy, and it sparked a proxy war between the West and Russia instead of ensuring peace, the source of its legitimacy.
The proxy war, unprecedented sanctions, and efforts to isolate Russia in the wider world contributed to the demise of liberal hegemony as opposed to its revival. Much of the world responded to the war by intensifying their transition to a Eurasian world order that rejects hegemony and liberal universalism. The economic architecture is being reorganised as the world diversifies away from excessive reliance on Western technologies, industries, transportation corridors, banks, payment systems, insurance systems, and currencies. Universalism based on Western values is replaced by civilisational distinctiveness, sovereign inequality is swapped with sovereign equality, socialising inferiors is replaced by negotiations, and the rules-based international order is discarded in favour of international law. A Westphalian world order is reasserting itself, although with Eurasian characteristics.
The West’s defeat of Russia would restore the unipolar world order while a Russian victory would cement a multipolar one. The international system is now at its most dangerous as the prospect of compromise is absent, meaning the winner will take all. Both NATO under US direction and Russia are therefore prepared to take great risks and escalate, making nuclear wan increasingly likely.
------------------------------------
Here is an interview with him to discuss it. I'm listening to it now. They discuss the big changes in the world as the US Empire comes to an end (or doesn't). Ukraine is an even bigger disaster than you might realize.
Of course I have to warn you that John M. liked it so be careful.
sorry - you're "experts" are all in the same bubble. And most are parroting Vlad media. It's bizarre. But not surprised some are sucked into it. More anti-MSM guys -blah blah blah
Look at the explanation of boris johnson at the 43 minute. "All sides agreed - then Boris and the US sabotaged it all." This is a lie - if it's not please provide the agreed agreement - the one Vlad held up. Why can't anyone produce the agreement that they both agreed to? Why is this part so darn difficult.
There's an agreement in writing - where is it - why can't we read it? IT'S SO SIMPLE. JUST SHOW THE PAPER!
Instead it's all plain hearsay.
nan said:
Well, we will see.
Speaking of fresh perspectives …
nan said:
The Russians also say they have evidence that the UK blew up Nordstream. So the UK is in hot water right now. We will see over the next few weeks what happens.
nan said:
They do not have enough fuel to run those countries. It is a disaster. It is failed leadership. The Western media is not telling the truth about the resources available. We will see how it goes this winter.
nan said:
I don't think they will announce war--I think they will only upgrade to an anti-terrorist operation. That's the next step up from SMO. Full war would require a much larger mobilization. But, no one is checking in for my approval so we will see.
Looks like Glenn is getting work with RT - I know nan will re-X this: https://www.rt.com/russia/594559-west-media-failed-report-russian-election/
nan really know how to glom onto the anti-MSM pro-Putin "journalists". He's the editor at the Russia in Global Affairs journal.
What's fascinating is the cherry picking and what they leave out. And a lot of it is what Putin has actually said. Zero in their reporting about the "worst nazi scourge since WWII". I also love the question "Why do Russian vote for Putin?" Well one of his biggest opponents just died in jail. And the other one who was gaining popularity and spoke out against the war was disqualified. But somehow - none of that was mentioned. hmm, weird. Just absolute trash.
jamie said:
Looks like Glenn is getting work with RT - I know nan will re-X this: https://www.rt.com/russia/594559-west-media-failed-report-russian-election/
An "expert" who defends Putin's sham election isn't someone to trust, or to cite when insulting other people's opinions.
DaveSchmidt said:
nan said:
Time to que up the Tom Leherer
https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1787489429122125921
Lehrer would have definitely had a field day with a country that threatened nuclear retaliation if other countries sent troops to Ukraine just like it did.
"Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize."
DaveSchmidt said:
nan said:
Well they fought to the last Ukrainian so now they might be coming for your families. All for a stupid war that was totally preventable.
U.S. could allow for American troop deployment to Ukraine - Democratic House leader Jeffries
https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-could-allow-american-troop-072400455.html
Jeffries didn’t say anything about deployment to Ukraine. He was talking about deployment to NATO allies if Putin succeeds in Ukraine and doesn’t stop there.
House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said the United States must continue supporting Ukraine to prevent a broader war, and he blamed the delay in aiding the fight against Russia on a "pro-Putin faction" within the Republican Party.
"We can't let Ukraine fall because if it does, then there's a significant likelihood that America will have to get into the conflict — not simply with our money, but with our servicewomen and our servicemen," Jeffries said in an interview with Norah O'Donnell for 60 Minutes.
Jeffries explained that he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin seeks to recreate the Soviet Union, and in doing so, will threaten NATO allies. Putin's invasion of neighboring Georgia did not stop there, Jeffries pointed out, nor did his takeover of Crimea in eastern Ukraine.
"Are we to believe that in the face of this kind of consistent aggression that if we allow Vladimir Putin to succeed in Ukraine that he's only going to stop in Ukraine? Of course not," Jeffries said.
This is why I distrust "Yahoo News" as a reference. It's an undiscriminating link aggregator with sloppy headlines.
PVW said:
This is why I distrust "Yahoo News" as a reference. It's an undiscriminating link aggregator with sloppy headlines.
I don't think you can blame the "Yahoo News" for a reader's failure to use the information provided with the article (on the source, etc.) before citing.
nohero said:
PVW said:
This is why I distrust "Yahoo News" as a reference. It's an undiscriminating link aggregator with sloppy headlines.
I don't think you can blame the "Yahoo News" for a reader's failure to use the information provided with the article (on the source, etc.) before citing.
no, they both deserve blame. the yahoo headline is very, very bad. and I have no doubt that nan read the article, used the information the way she normally uses information, and concluded that the article's body supported the headline.
drummerboy said:
nohero said:
PVW said:
This is why I distrust "Yahoo News" as a reference. It's an undiscriminating link aggregator with sloppy headlines.
I don't think you can blame the "Yahoo News" for a reader's failure to use the information provided with the article (on the source, etc.) before citing.
no, they both deserve blame. the yahoo headline is very, very bad. and I have no doubt that nan read the article, used the information the way she normally uses information, and concluded that the article's body supported the headline.
The headline is straight from the source, The New Voice of Ukraine, which as far as I can tell aims to be a legitimate news operation. It has been producing an English version for only two years, however, and errant headlines happen.
DaveSchmidt said:
nohero said:
Ladies and gentleman, presenting the self-refuting rant:
nan said:
Ok, enough about that and let’s go to the confounded, bewildered, and confused nohero …It could have been worse. She could have called you unconvincing.
Or gone the Rogers and Hart route and called me bewitched, bothered and bewildered.
2024 Pulitzer Prize winner imprisoned by Putin -
Vladimir Kara-Murza, contributor, The Washington Post - The Pulitzer Prizes
Vladimir Kara-Murza is a Russian politician, author, and historian who has been imprisoned in Russia since April 2022 for speaking out against the war on Ukraine. A longtime colleague of opposition leader Boris Nemtsov, he was a candidate for the Russian Parliament and served as deputy leader of the People’s Freedom Party. Leading diplomatic efforts on behalf of the opposition, Kara-Murza played a key role in the adoption of targeted Magnitsky sanctions on Russian human rights violators in the United States, European Union, Canada, and Great Britain. U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) called him “one of the most passionate and effective advocates for passage of the Magnitsky Act”; U.S. Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) described him as “a courageous advocate for the democratic process and fundamental universal human rights.” Twice, in 2015 and 2017, Kara-Murza was poisoned and left in a coma; a subsequent media investigation by Bellingcat and The Insider has identified officers of Russia’s Federal Security Service who were behind the poisonings. He is a contributing writer at the Washington Post and hosts a weekly show on Echo of Moscow radio, and has previously worked for the BBC, RTVi, Kommersant, and other media outlets. He has directed three documentary films, They Chose Freedom, Nemtsov, and My Duty to Not Stay Silent; and is the author of Reform or Revolution: The Quest for Responsible Government in the First Russian State Duma and a contributor to several volumes, including Russian Liberalism: Ideas and People, Europe Whole and Free: Vision and Reality, and Boris Nemtsov and Russian Politics: Power and Resistance. Kara-Murza led successful international efforts to commemorate Nemtsov, including with street designations in Washington and Vilnius. He was the founding chairman of the Nemtsov Foundation and served as vice president at Open Russia and the Free Russia Foundation; both organizations were designated as “undesirable” by Vladimir Putin’s government. Kara-Murza is a senior advisor at Human Rights First and a senior fellow at the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights; and has been a visiting fellow at the University of Chicago, leading a seminar course on contemporary Russia. He has been profiled on CBS 60 Minutes and NBC Nightly News, and has appeared on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, and BBC Newsnight. Kara-Murza is a recipient of several awards, including the Sakharov Prize for Journalism as an Act of Conscience, the Magnitsky Human Rights Award, and the Geneva Summit Courage Award. He holds an M.A. (Cantab.) in History from Cambridge. He is married, with three children.
DaveSchmidt said:
nan said:
Time to que up the Tom Leherer
https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1787489429122125921
Lehrer would have definitely had a field day with a country that threatened nuclear retaliation if other countries sent troops to Ukraine just like it did.
Why would he? He was worried about the bomb. Sending in troops from other countries to Ukraine is basically starting WWIII and exponentially increasing the chances of nuclear war.
Are you in favor of sending in troops from US/UK/EU, etc.?
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Existential threat: armored columns en route to your capitol.