January 6, 2021 on MOL

drummerboy said:

is a "knife through hot butter" supposed to be clever?

 I'm not sure.  Is asking "is a 'hot knife through butter' supposed to be clever?" supposed to be clever?

terp said:

ml1 said:

terp said:

PVW said:

When Notre Dame (a literal cathedral) caught fire a couple of years ago, it would have been quite the shock if someone responded with laughter. That fire was accidental, but if it had been arson, and someone posted a photo of the arsonist with LMFAO, that would have been even more shocking. That someone could look on the extensive damage of a hugely important part of our shared cultural heritage and see only a building, or worse, see something they were happy to see destroyed, would be hard to imagine. And I'm not even Parisian, much less French.

Similarly, it was a nasty surprise to see terp respond to the storming of the Capitol with laughter. I hadn't realize the distance to which he holds himself apart from his neighbors, and the depth of the contempt he has for us.

But once I got over that, it was actually helpful for reflecting on why I was so shocked and appalled by yesterday's events. In the context of someone like terp, where you can't appeal to assumed common values, it does force you to examine what are some of your baselines you had been assuming.

First, let's be clear about what happened -- an armed mob attempted to use violence to change the results of an election. Yes, they were violent, and they were threatening further violence. They didn't enter the capitol because wanted to have a respectful chat with lawmakers. House and Senate members weren't evacuated by their security details because they thought the mob was going to give them ice cream.

Nor did the mob choose some random time to force their way in. It was specifically when Congress was formalizing Biden's position as the next president. They went there specifically with the purpose of disrupting that, after being encouraged to do so by the current outgoing president who has been refusing to admit he lost. And if they had succeeded in reaching the lawmakers, we do not know would have happened. Would they have injured or killed any of them? If they incapacitated enough House Democrats to erase their voting majority, what then?

This was a real and serious threat to the non-violent transition of power. And that in itself is a huge deal. There are multiple non-violent ways to dispute an election, many of which Trump and his backers have availed themselves of. There have been recounts and over 60 court cases. To turn to violence because they didn't get their way isn't legitimate grievance, it's the logic of civil war.

Further, it does matter who wins an election. There is a difference between invading and occupying Iraq and not doing so. There is a difference between expanding access to health care and restricting it. There is a difference between laws that keep abortion safe and legal and laws that make abortions dangerous and unattainable.

These aren't of course differences that matter to everyone. But that doesn't mean they aren't real, substantive differences, it just tells us about what the person dismissing these differences values.

Honestly,  thank you for that post.  And for at least attempting to understand someone else's point of view.  I do not hold the capital as some sacred ground, as many here do.   I do not worship the federal government like they are gods.  I hate our federal government because I love my country.  I understand why most have this religious fervor.  There are 13 years of school and all kinds of propoganda in the media to reinforce it.  

That being said, while this was a violent mob, I'm not sure exactly what kind of peril the congresspeople were in.  There was only one violent death that Im aware of.  An unarmed protester was shot in the face by security.   I don't recommend watching the video.

And as far as the transition of power, a few hours later Biden was confirmed and Trump said he would concede.  To Yarvins point, there just isn't a lot of there there.

Congress spends billions on security and then cowers when a bunch of their constituents breach the security.  Meanwhile, the will bomb others, perpetuate genocide, and send your kids to war without giving it a 2nd thought.  See below for a sample of what they are perpetuating in Yemen.  Hint: this is what you should be outraged about.  

 it's possible to be outraged over both our country's endless wars AND Trumpism at the same time.  Your contention that objecting to Trump's clumsy coup attempt is a de facto endorsement of our country's endless wars, and all its other abuses of civil liberties, doesn't even logically follow.  It's just you showing your bias against the people you don't agree with.

 I never made this argument.    Generally speaking, I don't see very much outrage over these wars around these parts. 

 Generally not safe to make assumptions based on what you don't see.

OTOH, if you ever catch one of us posting pictures of civilian casualties and captioning it "LMFAO", be sure to point that out.

terp said:

  See below for a sample of what they are perpetuating in Yemen.  Hint: this is what you should be outraged about.  

Maybe, at the moment, we're more outraged at the 300K+ Americans who have died from a pandemic that has been allowed to run amok by a do nothing federal government that you hate so much..

Is that OK with you?

terp said:

drummerboy said:

is a "knife through hot butter" supposed to be clever?

 I'm not sure.  Is asking "is a 'hot knife through butter' supposed to be clever?" supposed to be clever?

 that makes as much sense as him.

PVW said:

terp said:

ml1 said:

terp said:

PVW said:

When Notre Dame (a literal cathedral) caught fire a couple of years ago, it would have been quite the shock if someone responded with laughter. That fire was accidental, but if it had been arson, and someone posted a photo of the arsonist with LMFAO, that would have been even more shocking. That someone could look on the extensive damage of a hugely important part of our shared cultural heritage and see only a building, or worse, see something they were happy to see destroyed, would be hard to imagine. And I'm not even Parisian, much less French.

Similarly, it was a nasty surprise to see terp respond to the storming of the Capitol with laughter. I hadn't realize the distance to which he holds himself apart from his neighbors, and the depth of the contempt he has for us.

But once I got over that, it was actually helpful for reflecting on why I was so shocked and appalled by yesterday's events. In the context of someone like terp, where you can't appeal to assumed common values, it does force you to examine what are some of your baselines you had been assuming.

First, let's be clear about what happened -- an armed mob attempted to use violence to change the results of an election. Yes, they were violent, and they were threatening further violence. They didn't enter the capitol because wanted to have a respectful chat with lawmakers. House and Senate members weren't evacuated by their security details because they thought the mob was going to give them ice cream.

Nor did the mob choose some random time to force their way in. It was specifically when Congress was formalizing Biden's position as the next president. They went there specifically with the purpose of disrupting that, after being encouraged to do so by the current outgoing president who has been refusing to admit he lost. And if they had succeeded in reaching the lawmakers, we do not know would have happened. Would they have injured or killed any of them? If they incapacitated enough House Democrats to erase their voting majority, what then?

This was a real and serious threat to the non-violent transition of power. And that in itself is a huge deal. There are multiple non-violent ways to dispute an election, many of which Trump and his backers have availed themselves of. There have been recounts and over 60 court cases. To turn to violence because they didn't get their way isn't legitimate grievance, it's the logic of civil war.

Further, it does matter who wins an election. There is a difference between invading and occupying Iraq and not doing so. There is a difference between expanding access to health care and restricting it. There is a difference between laws that keep abortion safe and legal and laws that make abortions dangerous and unattainable.

These aren't of course differences that matter to everyone. But that doesn't mean they aren't real, substantive differences, it just tells us about what the person dismissing these differences values.

Honestly,  thank you for that post.  And for at least attempting to understand someone else's point of view.  I do not hold the capital as some sacred ground, as many here do.   I do not worship the federal government like they are gods.  I hate our federal government because I love my country.  I understand why most have this religious fervor.  There are 13 years of school and all kinds of propoganda in the media to reinforce it.  

That being said, while this was a violent mob, I'm not sure exactly what kind of peril the congresspeople were in.  There was only one violent death that Im aware of.  An unarmed protester was shot in the face by security.   I don't recommend watching the video.

And as far as the transition of power, a few hours later Biden was confirmed and Trump said he would concede.  To Yarvins point, there just isn't a lot of there there.

Congress spends billions on security and then cowers when a bunch of their constituents breach the security.  Meanwhile, the will bomb others, perpetuate genocide, and send your kids to war without giving it a 2nd thought.  See below for a sample of what they are perpetuating in Yemen.  Hint: this is what you should be outraged about.  

 it's possible to be outraged over both our country's endless wars AND Trumpism at the same time.  Your contention that objecting to Trump's clumsy coup attempt is a de facto endorsement of our country's endless wars, and all its other abuses of civil liberties, doesn't even logically follow.  It's just you showing your bias against the people you don't agree with.

 I never made this argument.    Generally speaking, I don't see very much outrage over these wars around these parts. 

 Generally not safe to make assumptions based on what you don't see.

OTOH, if you ever catch one of us posting pictures of civilian casualties and captioning it "LMFAO", be sure to point that out.

 It really doesn't get mentioned.  Not for the last 12 years or so.

Edited to add that people usually aren't silent when they're outraged.  Especially when it's so easy to comment.  Maybe you'd prefer it didn't happen, but honestly, there isn't any outrage here over the murder of innocent poor children.

I'm a big believer in you are what you do.  The only way to judge on this board is to see what people say.  If we're really honest with ourselves we would realize that if there was outrage it would at least be a topic of discussion.

terp said:

PVW said:

terp said:

ml1 said:

terp said:

PVW said:

When Notre Dame (a literal cathedral) caught fire a couple of years ago, it would have been quite the shock if someone responded with laughter. That fire was accidental, but if it had been arson, and someone posted a photo of the arsonist with LMFAO, that would have been even more shocking. That someone could look on the extensive damage of a hugely important part of our shared cultural heritage and see only a building, or worse, see something they were happy to see destroyed, would be hard to imagine. And I'm not even Parisian, much less French.

Similarly, it was a nasty surprise to see terp respond to the storming of the Capitol with laughter. I hadn't realize the distance to which he holds himself apart from his neighbors, and the depth of the contempt he has for us.

But once I got over that, it was actually helpful for reflecting on why I was so shocked and appalled by yesterday's events. In the context of someone like terp, where you can't appeal to assumed common values, it does force you to examine what are some of your baselines you had been assuming.

First, let's be clear about what happened -- an armed mob attempted to use violence to change the results of an election. Yes, they were violent, and they were threatening further violence. They didn't enter the capitol because wanted to have a respectful chat with lawmakers. House and Senate members weren't evacuated by their security details because they thought the mob was going to give them ice cream.

Nor did the mob choose some random time to force their way in. It was specifically when Congress was formalizing Biden's position as the next president. They went there specifically with the purpose of disrupting that, after being encouraged to do so by the current outgoing president who has been refusing to admit he lost. And if they had succeeded in reaching the lawmakers, we do not know would have happened. Would they have injured or killed any of them? If they incapacitated enough House Democrats to erase their voting majority, what then?

This was a real and serious threat to the non-violent transition of power. And that in itself is a huge deal. There are multiple non-violent ways to dispute an election, many of which Trump and his backers have availed themselves of. There have been recounts and over 60 court cases. To turn to violence because they didn't get their way isn't legitimate grievance, it's the logic of civil war.

Further, it does matter who wins an election. There is a difference between invading and occupying Iraq and not doing so. There is a difference between expanding access to health care and restricting it. There is a difference between laws that keep abortion safe and legal and laws that make abortions dangerous and unattainable.

These aren't of course differences that matter to everyone. But that doesn't mean they aren't real, substantive differences, it just tells us about what the person dismissing these differences values.

Honestly,  thank you for that post.  And for at least attempting to understand someone else's point of view.  I do not hold the capital as some sacred ground, as many here do.   I do not worship the federal government like they are gods.  I hate our federal government because I love my country.  I understand why most have this religious fervor.  There are 13 years of school and all kinds of propoganda in the media to reinforce it.  

That being said, while this was a violent mob, I'm not sure exactly what kind of peril the congresspeople were in.  There was only one violent death that Im aware of.  An unarmed protester was shot in the face by security.   I don't recommend watching the video.

And as far as the transition of power, a few hours later Biden was confirmed and Trump said he would concede.  To Yarvins point, there just isn't a lot of there there.

Congress spends billions on security and then cowers when a bunch of their constituents breach the security.  Meanwhile, the will bomb others, perpetuate genocide, and send your kids to war without giving it a 2nd thought.  See below for a sample of what they are perpetuating in Yemen.  Hint: this is what you should be outraged about.  

 it's possible to be outraged over both our country's endless wars AND Trumpism at the same time.  Your contention that objecting to Trump's clumsy coup attempt is a de facto endorsement of our country's endless wars, and all its other abuses of civil liberties, doesn't even logically follow.  It's just you showing your bias against the people you don't agree with.

 I never made this argument.    Generally speaking, I don't see very much outrage over these wars around these parts. 

 Generally not safe to make assumptions based on what you don't see.

OTOH, if you ever catch one of us posting pictures of civilian casualties and captioning it "LMFAO", be sure to point that out.

 It really doesn't get mentioned.  Not for the last 12 years or so.

 There's a lot of topics I'm interested in and that are important to me that I don't discuss here, for any number of reasons. I assume this goes for most people.

Interest <> outrage.  I mean the killing of innocent children doesn't even hold a candle to someone laughing at some goofball smiling and carrying Pelosi's podium.  I get it.

drummerboy said:

terp said:

  See below for a sample of what they are perpetuating in Yemen.  Hint: this is what you should be outraged about.  

Maybe, at the moment, we're more outraged at the 300K+ Americans who have died from a pandemic that has been allowed to run amok by a do nothing federal government that you hate so much..

Is that OK with you?

 That is what you are supposed to be outraged about...well up until yesterday. 

terp said:

Interest <> outrage.  I mean the killing of innocent children doesn't even hold a candle to someone laughing at some goofball smiling and carrying Pelosi's podium.  I get it.

 Plenty of things that outrage me too that I don't discuss here too. Again, if I actually laugh at something you find outrageous, call me on that. If I'm not discussing something, any assumptions you make are on you.

ml1 said:

terp said:

PVW said:

When Notre Dame (a literal cathedral) caught fire a couple of years ago, it would have been quite the shock if someone responded with laughter. That fire was accidental, but if it had been arson, and someone posted a photo of the arsonist with LMFAO, that would have been even more shocking. That someone could look on the extensive damage of a hugely important part of our shared cultural heritage and see only a building, or worse, see something they were happy to see destroyed, would be hard to imagine. And I'm not even Parisian, much less French.

Similarly, it was a nasty surprise to see terp respond to the storming of the Capitol with laughter. I hadn't realize the distance to which he holds himself apart from his neighbors, and the depth of the contempt he has for us.

But once I got over that, it was actually helpful for reflecting on why I was so shocked and appalled by yesterday's events. In the context of someone like terp, where you can't appeal to assumed common values, it does force you to examine what are some of your baselines you had been assuming.

First, let's be clear about what happened -- an armed mob attempted to use violence to change the results of an election. Yes, they were violent, and they were threatening further violence. They didn't enter the capitol because wanted to have a respectful chat with lawmakers. House and Senate members weren't evacuated by their security details because they thought the mob was going to give them ice cream.

Nor did the mob choose some random time to force their way in. It was specifically when Congress was formalizing Biden's position as the next president. They went there specifically with the purpose of disrupting that, after being encouraged to do so by the current outgoing president who has been refusing to admit he lost. And if they had succeeded in reaching the lawmakers, we do not know would have happened. Would they have injured or killed any of them? If they incapacitated enough House Democrats to erase their voting majority, what then?

This was a real and serious threat to the non-violent transition of power. And that in itself is a huge deal. There are multiple non-violent ways to dispute an election, many of which Trump and his backers have availed themselves of. There have been recounts and over 60 court cases. To turn to violence because they didn't get their way isn't legitimate grievance, it's the logic of civil war.

Further, it does matter who wins an election. There is a difference between invading and occupying Iraq and not doing so. There is a difference between expanding access to health care and restricting it. There is a difference between laws that keep abortion safe and legal and laws that make abortions dangerous and unattainable.

These aren't of course differences that matter to everyone. But that doesn't mean they aren't real, substantive differences, it just tells us about what the person dismissing these differences values.

Honestly,  thank you for that post.  And for at least attempting to understand someone else's point of view.  I do not hold the capital as some sacred ground, as many here do.   I do not worship the federal government like they are gods.  I hate our federal government because I love my country.  I understand why most have this religious fervor.  There are 13 years of school and all kinds of propoganda in the media to reinforce it.  

That being said, while this was a violent mob, I'm not sure exactly what kind of peril the congresspeople were in.  There was only one violent death that Im aware of.  An unarmed protester was shot in the face by security.   I don't recommend watching the video.

And as far as the transition of power, a few hours later Biden was confirmed and Trump said he would concede.  To Yarvins point, there just isn't a lot of there there.

Congress spends billions on security and then cowers when a bunch of their constituents breach the security.  Meanwhile, the will bomb others, perpetuate genocide, and send your kids to war without giving it a 2nd thought.  See below for a sample of what they are perpetuating in Yemen.  Hint: this is what you should be outraged about.  

 it's possible to be outraged over both our country's endless wars AND Trumpism at the same time.  Your contention that objecting to Trump's clumsy coup attempt is a de facto endorsement of our country's endless wars, and all its other abuses of civil liberties, doesn't even logically follow.  It's just you showing your bias against the people you don't agree with.

 This is reaction to a picture of a starving kid in Yemen.  This and db who can only muster so much outrage are really the only ones who commented on it at all.  

To claim these people are outraged about the killing of poor innocent children is outrageous.

terp said:

I get it.

Thanks (again) for at least attempting to understand someone else’s point of view. 

PVW said:

Thanks for bringing a hot knife.

Below are some reactions to the goofy guy carrying Pelosi's podium.  Now that's outrage!

Dennis_Seelbach said:

terp said:

LMFAO!

 WTF...Are you fuching insane? 

ml1 said:

WTF is wrong with you?

Jaytee said:

terp said:

LMFAO!

Complete moron. You find this funny?

DaveSchmidt said:

terp said:

I get it.

Thanks (again) for at least attempting to understand someone else’s point of view. 

PVW said:

Thanks for bringing a hot knife.

I understand their POV just fine.  I used to be just like them.  I've been on this board a long time and there hasn't been much change.  Mostly its tribal outrage.  

And for the record, I think PVW is well intentioned and relatively well thought out.  And usually I appreciate the back and forth.  I would say that he would do well to explore other schools of thought. Even if he does not agree with what he finds, I think it will broaden his horizons.  

terp said:

DaveSchmidt said:

terp said:

I get it.

Thanks (again) for at least attempting to understand someone else’s point of view. 

PVW said:

Thanks for bringing a hot knife.

I understand their POV just fine.  I used to be just like them.  I've been on this board a long time and there hasn't been much change.  Mostly its tribal outrage.  

You really don't. You like to compartmentalize stuff so you can just dismiss it. You hate the feds, so you don't vote. Easy peasy decision!

We're just a bunch of tribalists with nary an individual thought amongst us. So, don't have to pay attention, I've heard it all before! Easy peasy!

I'm outraged at Yemen. You're not! I'm better than you, and I can dismiss your outrage.

You weren't this tiresome in the past. What happened?

terp said:

And for the record, I think PVW is well intentioned and relatively well thought out.  And usually I appreciate the back and forth.  I would say that he would do well to explore other schools of thought. Even if he does not agree with what he finds, I think it will broaden his horizons.  

 I appreciate that. I will note that you do seem to make some assumptions on my background that are incorrect. My current thoughts and beliefs aren't where I started, and many of the the points of view you share are not so far off from where I started, so in many cases you're asking me to go back to positions I formerly held, not exposing me to something new. That's a tricky sell, so if you find yourself frustrated with my unwillingness to go along, don't feel too bad as what you're pitching is a harder ask than you probably realized.

PVW said:

terp said:

And for the record, I think PVW is well intentioned and relatively well thought out.  And usually I appreciate the back and forth.  I would say that he would do well to explore other schools of thought. Even if he does not agree with what he finds, I think it will broaden his horizons.  

 I appreciate that. I will note that you do seem to make some assumptions on my background that are incorrect. My current thoughts and beliefs aren't where I started, and many of the the points of view you share are not so far off from where I started, so in many cases you're asking me to go back to positions I formerly held, not exposing me to something new. That's a tricky sell, so if you find yourself frustrated with my unwillingness to go along, don't feel too bad as what you're pitching is a harder ask than you probably realized.

 Apologies for being presumptuous.  What was your background if you don't mind me asking.

nohero said:

Maybe she wants her money back since this Revolution Vacation didn't turn out to her liking.  

 Now THIS is funny

terp,

You say you hate the Federal Govt. and you don't vote. Have you given a smidgden of thought to the fact that if there were Dem control of government, much of the economic suffering due to the pandemic, about which you have complained, could have been alleviated?

terp said:

Generally speaking, I don't see very much outrage over these wars around these parts.

 It really doesn't get mentioned.  Not for the last 12 years or so.

It's tough to continuously challenge wars that are generally tied to power struggles. They are about countries maneuvering to increase their pecking-order status, and the US trying to stay a super-power (which, confusingly, I can't tell if Yarvin would think is a useful consolidation of power, or not). 

I was very active and marched on the Capital daily protesting the Iraq war. It was predicated on lies, and it turned out the power struggle wasn't worth it. A part of my hope in humanity was crushed as we went into this war. I couldn't create change in even the smallest cogs of the war machine.

So, I have moved to be active on the cogs I can change. It seems easier to push for change, and get some movement, at the local level, and hope to expand.

Perhaps if we can successfully insert compassion and empathy into our methods for managing public safety in municipalities, we can create better methods to do so nationally, and then internationally.

The Republican and Democratic parties share the goal of remaining a top 'super-power' in the pecking order of countries. If you have a better way of getting them to move towards compassion and empathy in their approach, I'd be happy to hear it. 

But, I don't think that's your goal. If I understand correctly, you believe America should drop its international 'super-power' status and stay out of all international affairs? 

Should we start a new thread which talks about the discussion purpose instead of Terp's libertarian whataboutism?

So, Trump made a speech and his followers raided the Capital - thoughts?

PVW said:

terp said:

Interest <> outrage.  I mean the killing of innocent children doesn't even hold a candle to someone laughing at some goofball smiling and carrying Pelosi's podium.  I get it.

 Plenty of things that outrage me too that I don't discuss here too. Again, if I actually laugh at something you find outrageous, call me on that. If I'm not discussing something, any assumptions you make are on you.

 Also, bringing up Yemen as a distraction to the actual topic of a thread ≠ actual concern or outrage about Yemen.

drummerboy said:

terp said:

DaveSchmidt said:

terp said:

I get it.

Thanks (again) for at least attempting to understand someone else’s point of view. 

PVW said:

Thanks for bringing a hot knife.

I understand their POV just fine.  I used to be just like them.  I've been on this board a long time and there hasn't been much change.  Mostly its tribal outrage.  

You really don't. You like to compartmentalize stuff so you can just dismiss it. You hate the feds, so you don't vote. Easy peasy decision!

We're just a bunch of tribalists with nary an individual thought amongst us. So, don't have to pay attention, I've heard it all before! Easy peasy!

I'm outraged at Yemen. You're not! I'm better than you, and I can dismiss your outrage.

You weren't this tiresome in the past. What happened?

 I never said I was better than anyone.  But people keep making these assertions that they are outraged about that topic and I'm just supposed to take it on faith?  This board is full of outrage, but everyone just keeps that one topic in and doesn't say anything?  Really?

And my POV is that most of what we worship around here that we call democracy is a pageant.  And the corporate media seems intent on creating fear and outrage, but only about topics of their choosing. 

I'm not trying to tell anyone that I'm better than anyone.  I was hoping that the juxtaposition of the two topics would wake people up bit.  What could foster more outrage than kids dying?  

So much of this stuff is on cruise control and we get outraged about things that are often distractions.  Meanwhile this **** that goes on unchallenged. And I know that every single person here would be seriously and rightfully outraged about kids dying if they were bombarded with stories about it like they are with cheeto hitler.

terp said:

PVW said:

terp said:

And for the record, I think PVW is well intentioned and relatively well thought out.  And usually I appreciate the back and forth.  I would say that he would do well to explore other schools of thought. Even if he does not agree with what he finds, I think it will broaden his horizons.  

 I appreciate that. I will note that you do seem to make some assumptions on my background that are incorrect. My current thoughts and beliefs aren't where I started, and many of the the points of view you share are not so far off from where I started, so in many cases you're asking me to go back to positions I formerly held, not exposing me to something new. That's a tricky sell, so if you find yourself frustrated with my unwillingness to go along, don't feel too bad as what you're pitching is a harder ask than you probably realized.

 Apologies for being presumptuous.  What was your background if you don't mind me asking.

 I'm a white straight cisgendered male who grew up in a conservative state in the midwest. To a person, everyone I still know back there is a Trump supporter.

Probably the thing that finally split me off from my peers there is that both of my parents are immigrants. I'm hispanic on one side of my family (though you would not know it if you ever met me), so it's not hard to imagine myself into a different skin color.

I don't know that I met a Democrat until college. Libertarianism as a way of rebelling against the culture I grew up in without being a liberal -- "liberal" being a bad word -- had a lot of appeal.

jamie said:

Should we start a new thread which talks about the discussion purpose instead of Terp's libertarian whataboutism?

So, Trump made a speech and his followers raided the Capital - thoughts?

 Please don't direct that a new thread be started.  I edited to title to correct the spelling and add the umlaut, so I don't want my efforts to go to waste.

On any topic criticizing Trump, there will be attempts to divert attention or whatabout. 

sprout said:

terp said:

Generally speaking, I don't see very much outrage over these wars around these parts.

 It really doesn't get mentioned.  Not for the last 12 years or so.

It's tough to continuously challenge wars that are generally tied to power struggles. They are generally about countries maneuvering to increase their pecking-order status, and the US trying to stay a super-power (which, confusingly, I can't tell if Yarvin would think is a useful consolidation of power, or not). 

I was very active and marched on the Capital daily protesting the Iraq war. It was predicated on lies, and it turned out the power struggle wasn't worth it. A part of my hope in humanity was crushed as we went into this war. I couldn't create change in even the smallest cogs of the war machine.

So, I have moved to be active on the cogs I can change. It seems easier to push for change, and get some movement, at the local level, and hope to expand.

Perhaps if we can successfully insert compassion and empathy into our methods for managing public safety in municipalities, we can create better methods to do so nationally, and then internationally.

The Republican and Democratic parties share the goal of remaining a top 'super-power' in the pecking order of countries. If you have a better way of getting them to move towards compassion and empathy in their approach, I'd be happy to hear it. 

But, I don't think that's your goal. If I understand correctly, you believe America should drop its international 'super-power' status and stay out of all international affairs? 

 I was right there with you protesting the Iraq war, sadly in vain.  What happened to the left the last 12 years?

terp said:

 To be clear.  They were carrying guns and not wearing uniforms?!?!

 the DC police reported confiscating weapons from people who invaded the Capitol. And reported an armed standoff in the House chamber. 

So yes. The cops weren't the only ones armed yesterday  

terp said:

I understand their POV just fine.

And for the record, I think PVW is well intentioned and relatively well thought out. And usually I appreciate the back and forth. I would say that he would do well to explore other schools of thought. Even if he does not agree with what he finds, I think it will broaden his horizons.

I’d wager money on this: PVW has explored other schools of thought well enough to articulate them, under a blind MOL account, in comments you’d applaud, and that you’d struggle to pass the same test of understanding.

Anyway, I’ve gushed enough for one day.

terp said:

Below are some reactions to the goofy guy carrying Pelosi's podium.  Now that's outrage!

Dennis_Seelbach said:

terp said:

LMFAO!

 WTF...Are you fuching insane? 

 

ml1 said:

WTF is wrong with you?

Jaytee said:

terp said:

LMFAO!

Complete moron. You find this funny?

Given the full context of the event, in which a person was killed I found your mirth to be bizarrely callous.   

ml1 said:

terp said:

 To be clear.  They were carrying guns and not wearing uniforms?!?!

 the DC police reported confiscating weapons from people who invaded the Capitol. And reported an armed standoff in the House chamber. 

So yes. The cops weren't the only ones armed yesterday  

See, we’re OK with deadly weapons in the hands of the police state, but not in the hands of the people.