Trump has ordered strikes against Syria
Does anybody have a clue as to our strategy in the Middle East? We pretty clearly don't care that much about body counts and refugees. So, it must be to oppose Russian and Iran. I guess we should have thought of that before occupying Iraq. Looks to me like Syria is de Tar Baby and the U.S is B'rer Fox.
dave23 said:
BCC said: You're right, Trump's base will support any thing he does. What you have left out is the fact that MOL has it's own cult that is the mirror image of that base, and will trash anything that Trump does or says. Or tell me you don't know of any one on MOL who fits that description.I support his recent announcement that states have the right to set their own marijuana laws and the feds ought not block them. I'm glad you finally came out in support of something. Normally you just play badly at Contrarian and refuse to answer whether you actually support one position or another.
Cue BCC’s post demanding your proof that he came out in support of something.
LOST said:
drummerboy said:Trumpism isn't based on any principles. It's a cult of personality. Trump famously said that if he shot a person on 5th Avenue his base would still be with him. I suggest that if Trump came out for universal single-payer health care his base would still support him.
this tells so much about the R's. They really are a feckless group of people. And this is far from the only poll that shows the same thing.
DaveSchmidt said:
With the caveat that no two situations are exactly alike, here are results from ABC/Washington Post polls in 2013 and 2017 regarding strikes against Syria (threatened by Obama, ordered by Trump) in response to chemical attacks:
Support among Democrats in 2013: 38 percent. Last year: 37 percent.
Support among Republicans in 2013: 22 percent. Last year: 86 percent.
Only if he sold it as a repeal and replace of Obamacare.
Red_Barchetta said:
LOST said:Yes, but it would help if he sold it as a repeal and replace of Obamacare.
drummerboy said:Trumpism isn't based on any principles. It's a cult of personality. Trump famously said that if he shot a person on 5th Avenue his base would still be with him. I suggest that if Trump came out for universal single-payer health care his base would still support him.
this tells so much about the R's. They really are a feckless group of people. And this is far from the only poll that shows the same thing.
DaveSchmidt said:
With the caveat that no two situations are exactly alike, here are results from ABC/Washington Post polls in 2013 and 2017 regarding strikes against Syria (threatened by Obama, ordered by Trump) in response to chemical attacks:
Support among Democrats in 2013: 38 percent. Last year: 37 percent.
Support among Republicans in 2013: 22 percent. Last year: 86 percent.
Smedley said:
I’m not going there. I don’t support Trump who I think is pretty much an embarrassment and a jacka$$ overall. But at the same time, he is the president and he has to make decisions on a million different issues. Not all of what he does is awful, and I’m willing to assess things on an issue-by-issue basis rather than conclude everything trump does is awful because he’s trump. As I mentioned, I think the air strikes on Syria were a reasonable response to the situation over there.
My post was meant to refute your assertion that our loathing of Trump is knee-jerk reaction. My position is that through years of well documented despicable self serving behavior he has earned every bit of our loathing. You seem unable or unwilling to dispute that.
I never said loathing trump is a knee-jerk reaction. Go ahead and loathe. I’m in that camp myself, sometimes.
What is a knee-jerk reaction is when loathers of trump reflexively take issue with everything trump does as president, because he is trump.
Smedley said:
What is a knee-jerk reaction is when loathers of trump reflexively take issue with everything trump does as president, because he is trump.
I'd like to see a list of good, thoughtful, forward-thinking things he's done that we've not given him due credit.
Well whooptydoo we have one individual who can come up with one minor issue (I don't recall his ever mentioning it but I could be wrong ) on which he agreed with Trump. We also have a list of some of the members of the MOL Cult, who have provided insults, personal attacks and excuses, but not a single major issue where they agreed with Trump.
The mirror image remains intact.
BCC said:
Well whooptydoo we have one individual who can come up with one minor issue (I don't recall his ever mentioning it but I could be wrong ) on which he agreed with Trump. We also have a list of some of the members of the MOL Cult, who have provided insults, personal attacks and excuses, but not a single major issue where they agreed with Trump. The mirror image remains intact.
Do you have any suggestions on what they should agree with, instead of criticizing?
Basically the same question as above, from yesterday on this thread -
nohero said:
BCC said:Do you have an example of any one on MOL who did "trash anything that Trump does or says", which they would not have trashed, or actually agreed with, if a Democrat did it?
You're right, Trump's base will support any thing he does. What you have left out is the fact that MOL has it's own cult that is the mirror image of that base, and will trash anything that Trump does or says. Or tell me you don't know of any one on MOL who fits that description.
BCC said:
Well whooptydoo we have one individual who can come up with one minor issue (I don't recall his ever mentioning it but I could be wrong ) on which he agreed with Trump. We also have a list of some of the members of the MOL Cult, who have provided insults, personal attacks and excuses, but not a single major issue where they agreed with Trump. The mirror image remains intact.
Do you have any other agreements with Trump besides the recent bombing? It's possible there are things I haven't considered.
trump, follows a far-right, white-nationalist agenda. His foreign policy is guided by what he sees on television.
This is a guy, remember, with 2000 documented lies/distortions/misinformations in his first year. By any rational measure, any reasoning being would almost never agree with him. By default.
Given this background, why would anyone expect liberals to agree with him on more than a handful (if that) of issues? (I honestly can't even think of one other than the recent reports on easing up on marijuana enforcement. I vaguely remember one other thing I agreed with him on, but I guess it wasn't all that important in the grand scheme of things, because it's not jumping out at me.)
Now you'll just say that this is a perfect example of what the MOL cult would say. But, Mr. expert-on-liberal-attitudes-towards-Trump, you must have a policy or two in mind that the liberal reaction has just been knee-jerk. Otherwise there is no basis for your comments and you're just giving your own knee-jerk response.
But you won't give us an example of such a policy - I guess that's too much work for you. Or maybe you don't know of any. Which is far more more likely.
BCC said:
Well whooptydoo we have one individual who can come up with one minor issue (I don't recall his ever mentioning it but I could be wrong ) on which he agreed with Trump. We also have a list of some of the members of the MOL Cult, who have provided insults, personal attacks and excuses, but not a single major issue where they agreed with Trump. The mirror image remains intact.
dave23 said:
BCC said:
Well whooptydoo we have one individual who can come up with one minor issue (I don't recall his ever mentioning it but I could be wrong ) on which he agreed with Trump. We also have a list of some of the members of the MOL Cult, who have provided insults, personal attacks and excuses, but not a single major issue where they agreed with Trump. The mirror image remains intact.
Do you have any other agreements with Trump besides the recent bombing? It's possible there are things I haven't considered.
Consider this:
There is no trade war, only talk of tariffs being raised. Meanwhile, quietly, China cut it's tariffs on the US and Trump gave up nothing.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-fears-abate-china-194250445.html
Markets that have been skittish in recent weeks over trade war fears received a shot in the arm Tuesday from Chinese President Xi Jinping.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average pushed up 1.6% to 24,351, while the S&P 500 popped 1.3% to 2,647 after the Chinese leader struck a placatory tone on trade in a speech Tuesday at the Boao Forum for Asia. The Chinese president said he would lower tariffs on vehicles, while working to enforce protections on intellectual property rights—two areas for which President Donald Trump has previously criticized the Middle Kingdom.
Do you support Trump?
Occasionally I agree with his policy of having a Big Mac for lunch.
BCC said:Consider this: There is no trade war, only talk of tariffs being raised. Meanwhile, quietly, China cut it's tariffs on the US and Trump gave up nothing. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-fears-abate-china-194250445.html Markets that have been skittish in recent weeks over trade war fears received a shot in the arm Tuesday from Chinese President Xi Jinping. The Dow Jones Industrial Average pushed up 1.6% to 24,351, while the S&P 500 popped 1.3% to 2,647 after the Chinese leader struck a placatory tone on trade in a speech Tuesday at the Boao Forum for Asia. The Chinese president said he would lower tariffs on vehicles, while working to enforce protections on intellectual property rights—two areas for which President Donald Trump has previously criticized the Middle Kingdom. Do you support Trump?
The market has been very up and down based on the talk of a trade war, so I wouldn't consider it a proper measure for either side of the argument.
I agree that there is an imbalance and that China steals a lot of American intellectual property, but I don't agree with Trump's approach to the problem: Fire off threats that roil the markets and, if enacted, would have a mixed--at best--effect on American producers.
I also don't think he has a long-term strategy. But maybe this blunt approach will ultimately work. Too early to tell.
BCC said:
Consider this: There is no trade war, only talk of tariffs being raised. Meanwhile, quietly, China cut it's tariffs on the US and Trump gave up nothing. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-fears-abate-china-194250445.html Markets that have been skittish in recent weeks over trade war fears received a shot in the arm Tuesday from Chinese President Xi Jinping. The Dow Jones Industrial Average pushed up 1.6% to 24,351, while the S&P 500 popped 1.3% to 2,647 after the Chinese leader struck a placatory tone on trade in a speech Tuesday at the Boao Forum for Asia. The Chinese president said he would lower tariffs on vehicles, while working to enforce protections on intellectual property rights—two areas for which President Donald Trump has previously criticized the Middle Kingdom. Do you support Trump?
Of 4 leaders - Trump, Putin, Modi and Xi Jinping, only Modi and Xi Jinping has plans for their countries that amount to more than old fogeys popping Viagra so that they can cavort with porn starts. Modi is trying to modernize India's economy. Xi Jinping is following a plan to restore China to the point where neighboring nations are clearly subordinate as was the case during periods of Chinese strength in the past.
So, I suggest you look at the fine print of Xi Jinping's comments and tell me if there is any substance. My take on Xi Jinping is that he knows he is dealing with a spoiled brat inclined to throw tantrums and will act accordingly. One thing Xi Jinping won't do is make brash statements just to show he can still get it up as Trump is wont to do.
if Trump ends up joining TPP, and it addresses some of the issues with China and IP, I'd approve of that.
Promised to cut tariffs, didn't cut anything yet. It's certainly good to hear but on the other hand, China's nicey nice talk is about as reliable as Trump' bluster. Let's see what they do. I'll tip my hat to Trump when concrete changes are actually made, not jut talked about.
BCC said:
Consider this: There is no trade war, only talk of tariffs being raised. Meanwhile, quietly, China cut it's tariffs on the US and Trump gave up nothing. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-fears-abate-china-194250445.html Markets that have been skittish in recent weeks over trade war fears received a shot in the arm Tuesday from Chinese President Xi Jinping. The Dow Jones Industrial Average pushed up 1.6% to 24,351, while the S&P 500 popped 1.3% to 2,647 after the Chinese leader struck a placatory tone on trade in a speech Tuesday at the Boao Forum for Asia. The Chinese president said he would lower tariffs on vehicles, while working to enforce protections on intellectual property rights—two areas for which President Donald Trump has previously criticized the Middle Kingdom. Do you support Trump?
bub said:
Promised to cut tariffs, didn't cut anything yet. It's certainly good to hear but on the other hand, China's nicey nice talk is about as reliable as Trump' bluster. Let's see what they do. I'll tip my hat to Trump when concrete changes are actually made, not jut talked about.
BCC said:
Consider this: There is no trade war, only talk of tariffs being raised. Meanwhile, quietly, China cut it's tariffs on the US and Trump gave up nothing. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trade-war-fears-abate-china-194250445.html Markets that have been skittish in recent weeks over trade war fears received a shot in the arm Tuesday from Chinese President Xi Jinping. The Dow Jones Industrial Average pushed up 1.6% to 24,351, while the S&P 500 popped 1.3% to 2,647 after the Chinese leader struck a placatory tone on trade in a speech Tuesday at the Boao Forum for Asia. The Chinese president said he would lower tariffs on vehicles, while working to enforce protections on intellectual property rights—two areas for which President Donald Trump has previously criticized the Middle Kingdom. Do you support Trump?
Not to mention that the tariffs on autos are meaningless, since we have almost zero measurable exports of US made autos to China.
Dennis_Seelbach said:Not to mention that the tariffs on autos are meaningless, since we have almost zero measurable exports of US made autos to China.
I thought Buicks were popular there
dave23 said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:
dave23 said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:I thought Buicks were popular there
Not to mention that the tariffs on autos are meaningless, since we have almost zero measurable exports of US made autos to China.
They are, but they are made in China by Shanghai GM.
I agreed with Trump's position on Syria but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on DACA but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on guns but then he changed it.
LOST said:
I agreed with Trump's position on Syria but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on DACA but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on guns but then he changed it.
I agreed with the announcement of more sanctions on Russia but then Trump nixed it.
dave23 said:
LOST said:
I agreed with Trump's position on Syria but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on DACA but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on guns but then he changed it.
I agreed with the announcement of more sanctions on Russia but then Trump nixed it.
Tsk, tsk, and after all the times I warned you and all the others not to pay attention to what he said but watch what he did.
ridski said:
dave23 said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:
dave23 said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:I thought Buicks were popular there
Not to mention that the tariffs on autos are meaningless, since we have almost zero measurable exports of US made autos to China.
They are, but they are made in China by Shanghai GM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC-GM
.https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/04/10/chinese-auto-tariffs-xi-jinping/503470002/
'German automakers BMW Group and Daimler Group, maker of Mercedes-Benz, are the most prolific exporters of American-made vehicles to Chinese dealerships. BMW shipped 106,971 vehicles from U.S. factories to China last year, while Mercedes sent 72,198, according to LMC.
These were US made vehicles and were not the only ones sent.
BCC said:
dave23 said:Tsk, tsk, and after all the times I warned you and all the others not to pay attention to what he said but watch what he did.
LOST said:
I agreed with Trump's position on Syria but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on DACA but then he changed it.
I agreed to an extent with Trump's position on guns but then he changed it.
I agreed with the announcement of more sanctions on Russia but then Trump nixed it.
Yeah, thanks for that. All that time I took his word for it.
So which enacted policies of Trump's do you support?
that's exactly the reason I don't support any of Trump's stated policies yet. I have to wait to see what he actually does.
jeebus, this argument is tedious.
BCC said:
ridski said:.https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/04/10/chinese-auto-tariffs-xi-jinping/503470002/ 'German automakers BMW Group and Daimler Group, maker of Mercedes-Benz, are the most prolific exporters of American-made vehicles to Chinese dealerships. BMW shipped 106,971 vehicles from U.S. factories to China last year, while Mercedes sent 72,198, according to LMC.
dave23 said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:
dave23 said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:I thought Buicks were popular there
Not to mention that the tariffs on autos are meaningless, since we have almost zero measurable exports of US made autos to China.
They are, but they are made in China by Shanghai GM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC-GM
These were US made vehicles and were not the only ones sent.
Thanks, BCC.
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