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Smedley said:
ml1 said:
nohero said:
"Unable to support" is an incorrect statement. The support is in the posts from myself and others, for anyone who bothers to read the material provided.
And if you're not that familiar with Walsh or his efforts, but only with one example, then you are making a judgment on woefully insufficient information.
the thing that a lot of people seem to be concluding is that they think Walsh is not anti-trans because he's not necessarily expressing hatred for trans people specifically. But his thing is to spread propaganda against gender affirming health care. It's a distinction without a difference. He's anti-trans because he's fighting a jihad against their health care.
how was the thread propaganda?
If you were a trans person, wouldn’t you want trans health care providers to be ethical, and insurance companies that cover trans health care to not be defrauded by people who don’t follow the rules?
I know I’m asking questions here, dangerous territory.
did you read anything about the story aside from the tweets?
dave said:
ridski said:
paulsurovell said:
ridski said:
I may have missed it, but I didn't see a South Mountain Peace Action booth at the big North NJ Pride event at Memorial Park today.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers?
Was there any South Mountain Peace Action presence at Pride? I saw you were there at Memorial Day. No show for Pride?
His standing order from Russia was no marching.
Losing the argument about Walsh doesn't justify rank McCarthyism.
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
nohero said:
"Unable to support" is an incorrect statement. The support is in the posts from myself and others, for anyone who bothers to read the material provided.
And if you're not that familiar with Walsh or his efforts, but only with one example, then you are making a judgment on woefully insufficient information.
the thing that a lot of people seem to be concluding is that they think Walsh is not anti-trans because he's not necessarily expressing hatred for trans people specifically. But his thing is to spread propaganda against gender affirming health care. It's a distinction without a difference. He's anti-trans because he's fighting a jihad against their health care.
how was the thread propaganda?
If you were a trans person, wouldn’t you want trans health care providers to be ethical, and insurance companies that cover trans health care to not be defrauded by people who don’t follow the rules?
I know I’m asking questions here, dangerous territory.
did you read anything about the story aside from the tweets?
Asked and answered.
ridski said:
paulsurovell said:
ridski said:
I may have missed it, but I didn't see a South Mountain Peace Action booth at the big North NJ Pride event at Memorial Park today.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers?
Was there any South Mountain Peace Action presence at Pride? I saw you were there at Memorial Day. No show for Pride?
Maybe you missed my question while you were editing your post.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers (except for clinical trials)?
Are you going to renounce your British citizenship?
paulsurovell said:
Maybe you missed my question while you were editing your post.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers (except for clinical trials)?
Are you going to renounce your British citizenship?
will you renounce your American citizenship if we supply enough weapons to defeat Putin?
Jaytee said:
paulsurovell said:
Maybe you missed my question while you were editing your post.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers (except for clinical trials)?
Are you going to renounce your British citizenship?
will you renounce your American citizenship if we supply enough weapons to defeat Putin?
I thought we already did that.
ridski said:
paulsurovell said:
ridski said:
I may have missed it, but I didn't see a South Mountain Peace Action booth at the big North NJ Pride event at Memorial Park today.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers?
As the NHS in Scotland and Northern Ireland (possibly Wales, I'll have to look into that) have not changed their stance on puberty blockers, I can't comment on a UK ban, as it hasn't happened.
Here, you can "look into" this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/health/puberty-blockers-transgender-children-britain-nhs.html
paulsurovell said:
You are focusing on the person without regard to the merits of what was said, I'm focusing on the merits of what was said regardless of who said it. I think it's better to debate on the merits.
Well, the speaker is always a part of what's being said. For instance, I think you'd agree that if someone were asking the question "where is Palestine," the meaning changes significantly depending on who's asking -- is it a straightforward geography question? A rhetorical question making a geopolitical point?
What kind of history does Walsh have? Is he himself trans, or does he have children or other family, that would suggest he has some personal stake in the issue that could be the basis for good faith questioning? As far as I know, the answer is no -- from what I know of him, his history is that of a right-wing activist opposed to trans and LGBTQ issues for ideological reasons. How much merit is there in that?
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
Smedley said:
ml1 said:
nohero said:
"Unable to support" is an incorrect statement. The support is in the posts from myself and others, for anyone who bothers to read the material provided.
And if you're not that familiar with Walsh or his efforts, but only with one example, then you are making a judgment on woefully insufficient information.
the thing that a lot of people seem to be concluding is that they think Walsh is not anti-trans because he's not necessarily expressing hatred for trans people specifically. But his thing is to spread propaganda against gender affirming health care. It's a distinction without a difference. He's anti-trans because he's fighting a jihad against their health care.
how was the thread propaganda?
If you were a trans person, wouldn’t you want trans health care providers to be ethical, and insurance companies that cover trans health care to not be defrauded by people who don’t follow the rules?
I know I’m asking questions here, dangerous territory.
did you read anything about the story aside from the tweets?
Asked and answered.
I didn't see your answer. But if you did familiarize yourself beyond the tweets and you don't see how they're misleading and inflammatory, then there isn't much to discuss is there?
PVW said:
paulsurovell said:
You are focusing on the person without regard to the merits of what was said, I'm focusing on the merits of what was said regardless of who said it. I think it's better to debate on the merits.
Well, the speaker is always a part of what's being said. For instance, I think you'd agree that if someone were asking the question "where is Palestine," the meaning changes significantly depending on who's asking -- is it a straightforward geography question? A rhetorical question making a geopolitical point?
What kind of history does Walsh have? Is he himself trans, or does he have children or other family, that would suggest he has some personal stake in the issue that could be the basis for good faith questioning? As far as I know, the answer is no -- from what I know of him, his history is that of a right-wing activist opposed to trans and LGBTQ issues for ideological reasons. How much merit is there in that?
it's not just opposition. He has a history of spreading disinformation on the topic. He's made false accusation of sexual assault against at least one trans woman. He's not a person arguing this issue in good faith
Jaytee said:
paulsurovell said:
That's mostly what Walsh was pushing against in the film.
only difference is I’m not making a documentary asking people what a woman’s supposed to be, then not liking the answers. No one can really define what a woman is? He further claims that the left are all “child abusers who prey upon impressionable children and indoctrinate them into your insane ideological cult, a cult which holds many fanatical views but none so deranged as the idea that boys are girls and girls are boys.”
If you’re now only hearing of Walsh, then you may search for his podcasts and listen…. You might be hooked.
Read the commentary by Lisa Selin Davis that I posted if you want to know where I'm coming from:
https://lisaselindavis.substack.com/p/i-know-what-a-woman-is?s=w
But anyway, I know you've got a lot of work to do to re-ingratiate yourself with the clique/club for breaking the rules and agreeing with me, but I appreciate that moment of intellectual honesty.
PVW said:
Here's another question -- why does Matt Walsh care? And why does Elon Musk? What business is it of theirs? Why are they inserting themselves into these very personal and intimate medical decisions?
Veritas.
PVW said:
Here's another question -- why does Matt Walsh care? And why does Elon Musk? What business is it of theirs? Why are they inserting themselves into these very personal and intimate medical decisions?
Why did GB, France, Sweden, Norway and Finland say puberty blockers (and I'll bet surgery) are not options for minors unlike the experts interviewed by Walsh. I'm speculating that what motivates the health agencies of those countries is what motivates Elon Musk. And @Jaytee.
Elon Musk is many things, but he is not a doctor. What motivates doctors and their patients in those countries is manifestly not the same as what motivates Elon Musk.
RealityForAll said:
PVW said:
Here's another question -- why does Matt Walsh care? And why does Elon Musk? What business is it of theirs? Why are they inserting themselves into these very personal and intimate medical decisions?Veritas.
As I noted previously, Walsh doesn't appear to have any actual experience that gives him any insight into the lives of trans people or their families. Nor does Musk. And yet they seem to have strong opinions despite this absence. Seems a poor basis for seeking veritas.
paulsurovell said:
ridski said:
As the NHS in Scotland and Northern Ireland (possibly Wales, I'll have to look into that) have not changed their stance on puberty blockers, I can't comment on a UK ban, as it hasn't happened.
Here, you can "look into" this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/health/puberty-blockers-transgender-children-britain-nhs.html
Good idea, I will.
paulsurovell said:
Read the commentary by Lisa Selin Davis that I posted if you want to know where I'm coming from:
https://lisaselindavis.substack.com/p/i-know-what-a-woman-is?s=w
But anyway, I know you've got a lot of work to do to re-ingratiate yourself with the clique/club for breaking the rules and agreeing with me, but I appreciate that moment of intellectual honesty.
I am not aware of any cliques here. I agree with the majority of posters here, that’s about it. I disagree with you completely on the Russian threads, but I understand your ideology. I don’t know why some of you feel there’s some kind of boy’s club that is private or discriminates against people who don’t fit the admission requirements. I think we all enjoy the interaction, the trolls, not so much. I don’t consider you a troll. You’ve earned your stripes here.
paulsurovell said:
dave said:
ridski said:
paulsurovell said:
ridski said:
I may have missed it, but I didn't see a South Mountain Peace Action booth at the big North NJ Pride event at Memorial Park today.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers?
Was there any South Mountain Peace Action presence at Pride? I saw you were there at Memorial Day. No show for Pride?
His standing order from Russia was no marching.
Losing the argument about Walsh doesn't justify rank McCarthyism.
Didn't lose anything, but you just lost face.
Daily Wire's Matt Walsh: “Black people committing crimes against white people for sport is common”
....
Daily Wire's Matt Walsh: “Diversity is an anti-white conspiracy”
....
Matt Walsh’s violent political worldview: “You have to make people hurt”
....
Matt Walsh: “we probably lost our republic after Reconstruction” and that “as the Anglo-Saxons, which were the original Americans, die off, our identity and our culture goes with it.”
.....
MATT WALSH (CO-HOST): But what I was trying to say, if you want extreme change, you must take extreme action. What you have to do is look at the situation and decide what exactly you want to have happen. And then you have to honestly approach it and say, what do we have to do to make this happen? But it is, in fact, true that you have to make people hurt. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But holding signs and yelling loudly will not make anyone hurt.
....
Walsh and other speakers at the rally used incendiary language directing anger at medical professionals
....
Daily Wire's Matt Walsh calls LGBTQ teachers “groomers,” adding, “There is no heterosexual person demanding this sort of thing on the other side”
....
FIND MORE ABOUT PAUL'S PROUD BOY AT:
dave said:
paulsurovell said:
dave said:
ridski said:
paulsurovell said:
ridski said:
I may have missed it, but I didn't see a South Mountain Peace Action booth at the big North NJ Pride event at Memorial Park today.
How do you feel about the UK ban on puberty blockers?
Was there any South Mountain Peace Action presence at Pride? I saw you were there at Memorial Day. No show for Pride?
His standing order from Russia was no marching.
Losing the argument about Walsh doesn't justify rank McCarthyism.
Didn't lose anything, but you just lost face.
Daily Wire's Matt Walsh: “Black people committing crimes against white people for sport is common”
....
Daily Wire's Matt Walsh: “Diversity is an anti-white conspiracy”
....
Matt Walsh’s violent political worldview: “You have to make people hurt”
....
Matt Walsh: “we probably lost our republic after Reconstruction” and that “as the Anglo-Saxons, which were the original Americans, die off, our identity and our culture goes with it.”
.....
MATT WALSH (CO-HOST): But what I was trying to say, if you want extreme change, you must take extreme action. What you have to do is look at the situation and decide what exactly you want to have happen. And then you have to honestly approach it and say, what do we have to do to make this happen? But it is, in fact, true that you have to make people hurt. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But holding signs and yelling loudly will not make anyone hurt.
....
Walsh and other speakers at the rally used incendiary language directing anger at medical professionals
....
Daily Wire's Matt Walsh calls LGBTQ teachers “groomers,” adding, “There is no heterosexual person demanding this sort of thing on the other side”
....
FIND MORE ABOUT PAUL'S PROUD BOY AT:
Was this stuff in the film that we're talking about?
PVW said:
He's just asking questions, Dave.
I wasn't but I will now -- what does Dave's post have to do with the film under discussion?
paulsurovell said:
PVW said:
He's just asking questions, Dave.
I wasn't but I will now -- what does Dave's post have to do with the film under discussion?
Do you show Hitler's art to people and ask them to ignore, you know, everything else?
Here's a crumb for those of you running away from the NY Times report on the British ban on puberty blockers except for clinical settings: I'm walking back -- somewhat -- my earlier statements.
While the British ban is mirrored in Norway and Sweden, France and Finland allow puberty blockers for minors after a number of hurdles have been crossed.
France: "It is therefore advisable to extend as much as possible the psychological support phase."
https://www.academie-medecine.fr/la-medecine-face-a-la-transidentite-de-genre-chez-les-enfants-et-les-adolescents/?lang=en
Finland: “The first-line intervention for gender variance during childhood
and adolescent years is psychosocial support and, as necessary,
gender-explorative therapy and treatment for comorbid psychiatric
disorders . . In light of available evidence, gender reassignment of
minors is an experimental practice”
https://palveluvalikoima.fi/documents/1237350/22895008/Summary_minors_en+(1).pdf/fa2054c5-8c35-8492-59d6-b3de1c00de49/Summary_minors_en+(1).pdf?t=1631773838474
I'll check in tomorrow to see what Dave S has found.
dave said:
paulsurovell said:
PVW said:
He's just asking questions, Dave.
I wasn't but I will now -- what does Dave's post have to do with the film under discussion?
Do you show Hitler's art to people and ask them to ignore, you know, everything else?
Take a deep breath, Dave. It's only a debate.
Veritas was my favourite Barossa Valley winery…
https://www.therealreview.com/wineries/4dnn8y9kn8s2/ 
(written as an Hons. Graduate of Melbourne Uni’s Philosophy Department - we know our wines, and our reality!)
RealityForAll said:
Veritas.
paulsurovell said:
dave said:
paulsurovell said:
PVW said:
He's just asking questions, Dave.
I wasn't but I will now -- what does Dave's post have to do with the film under discussion?
Do you show Hitler's art to people and ask them to ignore, you know, everything else?
Take a deep breath, Dave. It's only a debate.
Oh thank god.
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only difference is I’m not making a documentary asking people what a woman’s supposed to be, then not liking the answers. No one can really define what a woman is? He further claims that the left are all “child abusers who prey upon impressionable children and indoctrinate them into your insane ideological cult, a cult which holds many fanatical views but none so deranged as the idea that boys are girls and girls are boys.”
If you’re now only hearing of Walsh, then you may search for his podcasts and listen…. You might be hooked.