What do you do when your parents won't stop driving (when they should)?

If you believe an elder is incompetent to operate a vehicle; go to them with somebody they know, get the elder's keys, and take the vehicle.

If it turns out that you are unnecessarily concerned, get used to the idea of a larceny charge.

Some people drive safely well into their elder years. Some don't.

But as we well know from our observations on the roadways, not to mention the postings on this message board, there are those amongst us in their teens through their tenth decade, who cannot operate a vehicle safely.

Just make sure it's the elder's competency to drive; and not one's competency to judge their elder's driving abilities, which informs one's decision making process.

Happy motoring.

TomR


Wow, until reading this I had forgotten that I was riding in the car with my mother driving, a month ago, and she ran over a curb and sideswiped a mailbox. She refused to let me drive home. We are trying not to let the grandkids ride with her. How did I forget that? Not looking forward to dealing with this.


Those self driving cars can't come soon enough!


If you can find someone willing to go along with it....hire a young women or man who needs a 'mentor'....Your parents go to work as the mentor and in exchange the mentor helps out with driving and running errands.....and you can just pay the person secretly..


If you are going to take the car, go to the police department and advise them before you take action.


My 80-something BIL came home one day a few months back, put his keys on the kitchen counter, and said, "I don't need to drive anymore." Will anyone ever know what happened? Doubtful.

Happily, his daughter is living with him, so getting around isn't a big problem. And apparently no one was harmed in making this decision. He is and always has been a case.

Best wishes for wisdom & patience, to deborahg and all who are dealing with this situation.


I knew I had to take action when my mom's doctor called me to say he had observed her driving poorly; based on his observations, he felt that her driving skills and her cognitive issues made it imperative that she had to stop. He told me that I could tell her or he could tell her. I told her; I told her she would feel just awful if she caused an accident. She never drove again. Fortunately, she and my dad were able to take cabs wherever they needed to go, and they had friends and neighbors who provided transportation as well. Mom never stopped telling me how much she missed being able to drive.

I provided transportation on weekends; I couldn't during the week unless there was an emergency since I, a Millburn resident, worked full time in NY (my parents were in Riverdale). As an only child, it all fell to me. Tough times.


joanne said:
Age itself is not a reason to stop driving, and familiarity with the neighbourhood helps.

I was going to raise this issue. IS age alone a reason to stop driving? My MIL is going on 93 and still drives. She has significant hearing loss, and her hearing aids don't work very well. Other than that, she has no diagnosed issues.


shoshannah said:


joanne said:
Age itself is not a reason to stop driving, and familiarity with the neighbourhood helps.
I was going to raise this issue. IS age alone a reason to stop driving? My MIL is going on 93 and still drives. She has significant hearing loss, and her hearing aids don't work very well. Other than that, she has no diagnosed issues.

I can't really answer this question. However, my concern is with inevitably slowed reflexes that don't allow the type of fast reaction needed for unexpected events.


mjh said:


shoshannah said:


joanne said:
Age itself is not a reason to stop driving, and familiarity with the neighbourhood helps.
I was going to raise this issue. IS age alone a reason to stop driving? My MIL is going on 93 and still drives. She has significant hearing loss, and her hearing aids don't work very well. Other than that, she has no diagnosed issues.
I can't really answer this question. However, my concern is with inevitably slowed reflexes that don't allow the type of fast reaction needed for unexpected events.

Me too. She says that since she only drives on local streets (Brooklyn) that it's okay. To me, there's MORE chance of an accident on local streets with all the stop-and-go traffic. Not to mention the pedestrians.


The NJ MVC has a list of DRIVER REHAB specialists (occupational therapists). I believe it is online. Kessler does it.


There are special driving conditions for people with slowed reflexes and impaired hearing, and even impaired cognition. That's why it's important to have an objective test with a third party trained to know where the cut-off is.

It's amazing to see the difference knowing you can still drive to Church on a quiet Sunday morning at 9am if you only take right hand turns (for example) can be. (I had one lady who only wanted to drive herself to church, and a special route was allowed for her) sometimes a condition is that you are tested more frequently and that's enough to make someone hand in their licence.


Don't know about NJ, but here in Wisconsin people can get a special endorsement on their license that permits driving only within a certain area/neighborhood: church and grocery store OK, downtown NO.


Just wondering how this is progressing...?


Telling them to give up the car keys and move closer to younger family members may be seen as an attack on their abilities and freedom, even if this is exactly what you have in mind. Pride and independence are difficult to give up in the best of circumstances. It is difficult to strike a cord where they can conclude for themselves that they need to rethink how they live their lives at home or conclude that they need to move to a place where they can manage on their own - at least for now.

Some topics for you and them to consider: Is a car service/taxi an option available where your parents live or is the area too remote? Is home delivery of basics such as food and medication available in their area or would they have to leave their house to obtain these necessities? Can they/will they use a computer or telephone to order larger items such as clothing and household goods that they can no longer carry themselves? What will they do for socialization if they no longer drive but continue to live where they are? If there is a medical or safety emergency, are resources available to get them the help they need in a timely fashion? If these support services exist where they are and assuming they would be willing to use them, staying in place without driving might be an option for the time being. Raising these questions may help them to reluctantly realize on their own that it is time to move.

If they are too proud and independent to move closer to family, is there a walkable town near them that they might find more comfortable as their next home? If so, this might be a viable compromise or "half-way" interim solution for them.



Thanks for checking in. I spent some time with them and spoke with my mother frankly about this. She recognizes the problem, though she still sees my stepfather as more of a problem than she is at this point. She told me that she now drives whenever they go out together, and his friends also drive him whenever possible. However, just during my visit he took his big pickup truck out every day, so I don't think that's an effective strategy. My mother let me use her car, so I didn't drive with either of them for the duration of the visit.

If it were just my mother, I think she would move up here to South Orange village, get an apartment, and happily give up her car. My stepfather's health hasn't been good and I suspect she's taking a wait and see attitude with that, however. When pushed, she said she "wasn't ready to talk about it any further."

We were able to have these long talks, by the way, because she asked me to drive her to an event in a town about 40 minutes away -- and when we arrived, discovered that she'd gotten the date wrong. So we drove back, and then out again on the correct day. This kind of thing happened a couple of times.

Re: Taxi service, it's not that remote but I am told car services are unreliable if they come at all. I checked uber and the closest cars were at least 20 minutes away -- not good for local runs. Hiring a regular driver is a possibility but not one they are open to right now. They don't want to move to a more central settlement in their area -- the space and land is what makes the place appealing, to my stepfather at least.

My feeling is that they don't want to be dependent on others for transportation at this point, which means they need to move somewhere where most of what they want to do is within walking distance. The problem is, my stepfather wants to be near fishing, home depot, etc., while my mom wants museums, markets, a Jewish community. Pretty hard to come up with all that without driving.



Some interesting challenges there, that's for sure.

Deborahg, are you able to speak with their doctor? Not about having a driving licence stopped; we've discussed that above. What I'm wondering about just now is how individual combinations of medical conditions and medications can affect awareness, cognition, judgement, memory, reflexes...

It might be that a small adjustment to a dosage or a choice of medication can improve things while long-term solutions are being decided. But if the doc is unaware of these lapses etc, then the adjustments can't be made.


Unfortunately, the issues that are causing the driving problems aren't medicationr elated (though indeed the medications maybe having some effect in my stepfather's case). He has diabetic neuropathy (no feeling in his feet) and retinopathy (serious vision issues), he is deaf (has hearing aid and uses sporadically), and his reflexes are not fast or strong. My mother can see and hear, but her poor reflexes and general fear around driving are very unsafe in their own way.

I don't know who their doctors are and would not be able to speak with them without permission, which would not be given at this point. Unfortunately.


I did some poking around and found information on requesting medical evaluations.

How to Request an Unsafe Driver Investigation in Florida

The Florida DHSMV will accept information from any doctor, person, or agency representative who knows of a physical or mental condition that may affect an individual’s ability to drive safely. While those completing such reports must include a name, address, and telephone number, all reports are kept confidential. Department investigators may interview family members, neighbors, or the driver’s doctor and may also require medical tests or written or road retests.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-driving-laws-seniors-older-drivers.html

Going to speak with siblings about this.



Ok, here's some info that may help.

In Australia, the lack of good feeling in fingers and toes and the poor reflexes added to impaired hearing would require special practical assessment, annually. Not medical assessment in the doc's office, with an eye chart: driving for an hour with an occupational therapist specially trained to assess driving skills and look for possible assistive modifications as required. That OT knows the law and regulations like a licence tester, as well as the practical stuff. The probable result from what you write is that he would fail such a test today, or would be limited to very short drives close to home (basically, around the block for shopping only).

(My FIL passed one such test with dementia, but was told he needed to be more aware of changing lights and merging traffic. He was too nervous for the next test, and knew the writing was on the wall. When the car engine seized in traffic and he couldn't work out how to get help, he gave up.)


Also, on pp20-21 you'll find the stipulated physical and mental requirements for holding a drivers licence in Florida, plus allowed modifications.

http://www.flhsmv.gov/handbooks/englishdriverhandbook.pdf if you don't think either will put up with, for example, a hand control for the foot pedals then that's it, the discussions are over, unfortunately. Other transport solutions need to be found.



deborahg said: "I don't know who their doctors are and would not be able to speak with them without permission, which would not be given at this point. Unfortunately."

Doctors are permitted to *accept* information about patients, though legally they're not permitted to *reveal* info without the patient's OK. Staff are not always aware/willing to cooperate in accepting info, and may not be permitted to confirm that the person you want to speak about (mom/stepdad) is actually a patient, but usually you can get through one way or another. I usually start the conversation with "I know you can't give me any info, but I want to give you some," or the like. Doctors' names would be on Rx labels, if your mom is not willing to reveal, if you don't mind snooping a little. After all, this is a matter of life and death, as the doctor(s) know.

Would your mom be willing to give you names of docs "in case there's an emergency"?


I agree. You may need to be a little subversive for the greater good. Sorry, but lives are at stake.


Toward the end of my parents lives, but before they moved into assisted living with medication management, I riffled through their prescriptions every time I visited to find out what they were taking.


Deborahg, has your family had 'the conversation' yet? Enduring powers of attorney, tissue/organ donation (I'm a Halachic donor, which is coordinated via a rabbinic team in NYC), various levels of support at home how to know if it's time to find supported accommodation and if so, where? Could be a good time to start some of these.

'Mum, no-one is saying you can't manage. But maybe I should have a list of who the doctors and pharmacists are, in case you need a hand making an appointment or getting a script when we're visiting.'


Spoke with my brother who is not willing to cooperate/assist. He thinks unless they are a proven menace, they need to make their own decisions. He hasn't been down there for a couple of years, so he's not up to date, but he feels I should back off. As for talking to their doctors, they would immediately know something is up, and I am not comfortable with going behind their backs like this. My stepfather is not even a legal relative (he and my mom married long after I was grown and out of the house).

I'm now thinking of sharing the driving guidelines with my mom and asking her if she thinks either of them would pass if someone blew the whistle. I think she will be honest about it -- maybe not right away, but it will sink in. Since a doctor (especially the eye and neuropathy docs) could do so at any time, at the very least I hope to have the conversation of "what would you do if you suddenly weren't allowed to drive?" Once I have a better sense of what she sees as plan B, we can start moving in that direction.


>smile< A good approach. Either could fall and break an arm or leg, being unable to drive temporarily. The other could become unwell enough (flu, or bad arthritis etc) to not be able to drive. Then what?

All you're doing is making plans, and thinking ahead.

Sending you strength.


The fall back approach might work. You are not looking to take the keys away or force a move today. Rather, you are helping them to develop a plan for the future and in so doing to obtain a clearer understanding of what will happen when that point is reached. If that point is reached tomorrow, you may face less resistance from them if the fall back plan is mostly their idea.

You can reasonably advocate for your mother and she in turn can advocate for your step father and then share the information with you.


deborahg said:
I don't know who their doctors are and would not be able to speak with them without permission, which would not be given at this point. Unfortunately.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to get a durable power of attorney—or at a minimum, a medical power of attorney. Who is going to make medical decisions for them, pay their bills, access their bank accounts, etc. when they are unable to or too confused to do so themselves? Once they have given you POA, then you can talk to their docs.


Does you step father have children from a prior marriage? If so, are they part of the discussion?


In order to add a comment – you must Join this community – Click here to do so.