The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
tjohn said:
ml1 said:Not unlike a lot of illegal immigrants, come to think of it.
mtierney said:I'm not sure if you read the entire article, but there's really nothing there that we should be alarmed about. These families are having babies in order that they might be able to come back decades from now if they want to go to school here, or if there's political unrest that makes their home countries dangerous. These are educated, wealthy people who are not planning to come to the US to take advantage of "welfare." If they do come back to live here in the future, they will in all likelihood be productive, contributing members of our country. And if I may add, the kind of people who will be paying for the Social Security and Medicare of people like me.
while all eyes are focused on border/wall security, $100K buys wealthy pregnant Chinese women accommodation, free health care, baby citizenship and passport! Oh, and shopping sprees at Gucci, etc while they wait.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/us/anchor-baby-birth-tourism.html
Surely a challenge for America’s naysayers, right?
true. But the Trumpers won't believe that regardless of how much data you show them.
joanne said:
it's the kind of Golden Passport for Sale in many nations in Europe and in other nations around the world. I did read an article (I think last week? On the BBC news site) examining the longer term impact of this category of citizenship, especially in the ought of the Davos discussion of 'just pay your taxes'; apparently a couple of nations well-known for this class of citizenship are considering no longer offering it.
my understanding is that US citizens are required to pay US income taxes regardless of where they live and work. Wonder if that applies to these so-called "birth tourism" kids.
what hit a nerve with me — seemingly only me — was the comment in the article that, after giving 100K to the “agency” making the arrangements, the pregnant Chinese women are provided indigent status in the country, allowing them to receive free prenatal and postnatal care!
I did a search on this and discovered at least one case where an organizer of birth tourism was criminally charged for fraud, etc.
mtierney said:
what hit a nerve with me — seemingly only me — was the comment in the article that, after giving 100K to the “agency” making the arrangements, the pregnant Chinese women are provided indigent status in the country, allowing them to receive free prenatal and postnatal care!
then maybe you should have made that clear. You have a tendency to post links with only an oblique comment that doesn't make your own reaction evident
mtierney said:
what hit a nerve with me — seemingly only me — was the comment in the article that, after giving 100K to the “agency” making the arrangements, the pregnant Chinese women are provided indigent status in the country, allowing them to receive free prenatal and postnatal care!
Ok, but don’t you think these people can afford (and be accustomed to) much better service than what will be provided for free?
Red_Barchetta said:
mtierney said:Ok, but don’t you think these people can afford (and be accustomed to) much better service than what will be provided for free?
what hit a nerve with me — seemingly only me — was the comment in the article that, after giving 100K to the “agency” making the arrangements, the pregnant Chinese women are provided indigent status in the country, allowing them to receive free prenatal and postnatal care!
As explained in the NY Times article: "The business arranged accommodation, prenatal care and shopping trips for the women. In some cases, the indictment said, it instructed clients to fabricate financial documents to enable them to obtain visa extensions, and it deposited money temporarily in their bank accounts. Mr. Zito, the special agent, said clients were advised to claim they lacked insurance, which entitled them to pay the indigent rate at whichever hospital they used to deliver their babies."
They were getting the care, just not paying for it the way other patients were via insurance.
I don't pay much attention to this kind of news, so I can't comment much, sorry. However I'm aware inasmuch as several very wealthy Australians dodging the tax and financial investment authorities use this kind of citizenship to avoid corporate and legal responsibilities.
Of course, they don't portray it that way, and often have very expensive PR people to ensure the rest of the world buys into their preferred reality.
nohero said:
Red_Barchetta said:As explained in the NY Times article: "The business arranged accommodation, prenatal care and shopping trips for the women. In some cases, the indictment said, it instructed clients to fabricate financial documents to enable them to obtain visa extensions, and it deposited money temporarily in their bank accounts. Mr. Zito, the special agent, said clients were advised to claim they lacked insurance, which entitled them to pay the indigent rate at whichever hospital they used to deliver their babies."
mtierney said:Ok, but don’t you think these people can afford (and be accustomed to) much better service than what will be provided for free?
what hit a nerve with me — seemingly only me — was the comment in the article that, after giving 100K to the “agency” making the arrangements, the pregnant Chinese women are provided indigent status in the country, allowing them to receive free prenatal and postnatal care!
They were getting the care, just not paying for it the way other patients were via insurance.
no wonder I didn't see the part of the article saying they received free care. Because it wasn't there.
Ml1... the rate for indigents (poor folks who cannot pay medical bills or for health insurance) being appropriated by racketeers running a scam for very wealthy people buying American citizenship should disgust us.
ml1 said:
mtierney said:then maybe you should have made that clear. You have a tendency to post links with only an oblique comment that doesn't make your own reaction evident
what hit a nerve with me — seemingly only me — was the comment in the article that, after giving 100K to the “agency” making the arrangements, the pregnant Chinese women are provided indigent status in the country, allowing them to receive free prenatal and postnatal care!
I don’t understand your comment. The last time anyone thought I offered “oblique comment” was hmmm, never!
presumably, your departmental snoops very good at detecting fraudsters; we constantly read here of genuine US cases incorrectly penalised horrifically for having been charged with defrauding the welfare/benefits systems.
And there’s also a very vigilant network of community dobbers - do you call them ‘dobbers’? - with phone cameras and social media, ready to report anyone they suspect of not being a genuinely worthy recipient. As you often comment, modern media is full of viral gossip reports.
Under our legislation, such fraud can now lead to loss of citizenship if the Minister deems you’re unworthy enough. Regardless you still have to pay back the money.
I gather he’s not Republican, which is why this is extra-damaging news?
been a bad week for Gov. Northam of Virginia
This from The Federalist.
Tiny Step From Third-Trimester Abortion to Infanticide
“Whether he intended to or not, Northam has now done the same. He has admitted that what really matters—even when an infant has been born alive during a botched third-trimester abortion—is what the woman wants.
“In his interview with a Virginia radio station earlier this week, he said, “If the mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen: the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if this is what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physician and the mother.”
“We used to hear abortion defenders talk about a woman’s body—“my body, my choice”—and how male legislators shouldn’t be telling a woman what to do with her body, as though the fetus were an appendage or an organ. To some extent we still hear that sort of language. But with the Democratic Party’s sharp leftward lurch, and the legislation Democrats are now advancing in blue states, the emphasis has unmistakably shifted from a woman’s body to her will.
“At the very least, this is a moment of clarity. Now we can dispense with the Roe v. Wade fiction that we must balance society’s interest in the potentiality for life against a woman’s right to privacy. Abortion advocates obviously never cared about the potentiality of life or the viability of a fetus. The only difference today is that they feel free to say so. We will likely hear no more talk from them about how life begins at some particular point, but rather about how it doesn’t matter when life begins because the desire and convenience of the mother trumps the life of the child—born or unborn.
“Now at last the pretense has lifted and we can talk about what we should have been talking about for the past 46 years: whether parents have the right to commit infanticide against their unwanted children.”
did anyone get passed "This from The Federalist" ?
ETA: but I really must add, for the umpteenth time, if the anti-abortion faction GAVE A CRAP about this issue, they would support efforts to actually reduce the number of abortions by supporting easier access to contraception. Instead, they do the opposite, INCREASING the number of abortions.
So, in sum, F*** you guys. You're the most dishonest, destructive interest group on the planet.
nohero said:
Red_Barchetta said:As explained in the NY Times article: "The business arranged accommodation, prenatal care and shopping trips for the women. In some cases, the indictment said, it instructed clients to fabricate financial documents to enable them to obtain visa extensions, and it deposited money temporarily in their bank accounts. Mr. Zito, the special agent, said clients were advised to claim they lacked insurance, which entitled them to pay the indigent rate at whichever hospital they used to deliver their babies."
mtierney said:Ok, but don’t you think these people can afford (and be accustomed to) much better service than what will be provided for free?
what hit a nerve with me — seemingly only me — was the comment in the article that, after giving 100K to the “agency” making the arrangements, the pregnant Chinese women are provided indigent status in the country, allowing them to receive free prenatal and postnatal care!
They were getting the care, just not paying for it the way other patients were via insurance.
So are you saying that the agents were arranging for upscale private care the clients would expect which was not some government run program? That would mean none of mtierney's money was involved.
The BBC article was about him being in a yearbook pic back in 1974, in which either he or others dressed as KKK and blackface; said he needed to apologise for his racist views and poor behaviour. There's apparently also a video. Not a word internationally about abortion, only racism.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/01/virginia-governor-ralph-northam-blackface-kkk-photo
Robert_Casotto said:
yeah, it’s really hard to find contraceptives these days.
hmmm, Hobby Lobby anyone?
“As explained in the NY Times article: "The business arranged accommodation, prenatal care and shopping trips for the women.
“In some cases, the indictment said, it instructed clients to fabricate financial documents to enable them to obtain visa extensions, and it deposited money temporarily in their bank accounts.
“Mr. Zito, the special agent, said clients were advised to claim they lacked insurance, which entitled them to pay the indigent rate at whichever hospital they used to deliver their babies."
Instructed to fabricate is to lie
To claim an untruth is to lie
Claiming to be indigent to get entitlement status is a rip off and a lie.
“They were getting the care, just not paying for it the way other patients were via insurance.“
They were stealing indigent medical care rates from the truly indigent. I believe Medicaid will pick up the tab which means all taxpayers will pay.
Anyone funding a racketeer with $100K to help them lie, is a liar.
joanne said:
presumably, your departmental snoops very good at detecting fraudsters; we constantly read here of genuine US cases incorrectly penalised horrifically for having been charged with defrauding the welfare/benefits systems.
And there’s also a very vigilant network of community dobbers - do you call them ‘dobbers’? - with phone cameras and social media, ready to report anyone they suspect of not being a genuinely worthy recipient. As you often comment, modern media is full of viral gossip reports.
Under our legislation, such fraud can now lead to loss of citizenship if the Minister deems you’re unworthy enough. Regardless you still have to pay back the money.
Snitches, they would be called here.
mtierney said:
“As explained in the NY Times article: "The business arranged accommodation, prenatal care and shopping trips for the women.
“In some cases, the indictment said, it instructed clients to fabricate financial documents to enable them to obtain visa extensions, and it deposited money temporarily in their bank accounts.
“Mr. Zito, the special agent, said clients were advised to claim they lacked insurance, which entitled them to pay the indigent rate at whichever hospital they used to deliver their babies."
Instructed to fabricate is to lie
To claim an untruth is to lie
Claiming to be indigent to get entitlement status is a rip off and a lie.
“They were getting the care, just not paying for it the way other patients were via insurance.“
They were stealing indigent medical care rates from the truly indigent. I believe Medicaid will pick up the tab which means all taxpayers will pay.
Anyone funding a racketeer with $100K to help them lie, is a liar.
Apparently the government agrees considering that one of these organizations is under criminal investigation.
My communications may be spotty — taking a break from winter weather — but this two- part, objective take on gun control, offering conservative and liberal viewpoints, is worth mulling over....
https://thejesuitpost.org/2018/02/the-conservative-case-for-gun-control/
So Bayer and Monsanto are allowed to 'merge', the US is apparently going to send troops to Venezuela, China's economy is heading into recession apparently thanks to its weird relationship with the US, both the US and Russia no longer believe in nuclear non-proliferation agreements although they're trying to get everyone else to stick to old paperwork... And your President wonders why allies are jumpy and distrustful?? You couldn't write a trashy novel as bad as this, let alone a tv series. Remind me why we're all still watching??
Oh. Right. 'Real life'.
For once Sarah Sanders actually tells the truth. When asked about Trump's extensive and increasing "executive time", she said "President Trump has a different leadership style than his predecessors and the results speak for themselves."
They most certainly do.
Back in USA
Broke right arm and wrist in Jamaica
Flew home last night
God willing I will be posting again
I'm so sorry to hear about your injury. Hope you had a little enjoyment before it happened. Speedy recovery.
speedy recovery. There's something to be said for joining the left (handed, that is, like me).
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it's the kind of Golden Passport for Sale in many nations in Europe and in other nations around the world. I did read an article (I think last week? On the BBC news site) examining the longer term impact of this category of citizenship, especially in the ought of the Davos discussion of 'just pay your taxes'; apparently a couple of nations well-known for this class of citizenship are considering no longer offering it.