Why do people back into spaces in parking lots?

Tom_Reingold said:

And just because it's harder to back in does not make a good argument against it. If it's too hard for you, please practice and get better at it so that it's not too hard for you. If you can't learn to back into a spot without hitting a fixed object, you shouldn't be driving a car. Try an easier vehicle.

 I tried backing up on my bike, but the pedals don't seem to work in that direction ;-)

PVW said:

Tom_Reingold said:

And just because it's harder to back in does not make a good argument against it. If it's too hard for you, please practice and get better at it so that it's not too hard for you. If you can't learn to back into a spot without hitting a fixed object, you shouldn't be driving a car. Try an easier vehicle.

 I tried backing up on my bike, but the pedals don't seem to work in that direction ;-)

 You need a fixed gear bike!

sportsnut said:

tomcat said:
Dear Drummerboy,
Just because 95% of drivers do not know how to operate a motor vehicle correctly**, does not mean  that those of us who do, should not follow the safest practices.  I always back in, including into my own drive way.  And, I know the length of my vehicle, I can stop within 4-8 inches of the car behind me without hitting it.
** For further evidence, consider the number of drivers, who:

• Stop 1-3 car lengths from the stop line at traffic lights.
• Are afraid to pass a left turning vehicle, despite ample space for theirs to pass.
• Fail to signal turns & lane changes.
• Can't place their vehicle correctly in marked parking spots (see 'How to Park like a Tool').
• Pull to the right, in order to make a left turn (and vice-versa).
• Fail to use highway ramps to accellerate to highway speed.  
• Drive in center (or left) lane, without passing anyone.

 If I could give this 50 likes I would, especially points 1 &2.  To me these hold up far more traffic than someone backing into a spot.  I think depth perception should be tested and people absolutely don't know how big or wide their cars are.  

 Someone please explain this to me:

Are afraid to pass a left turning vehicle, despite ample space for theirs to pass.

You mean pass on the right? I don't understand.

drummerboy said:

Someone please explain this to me:

Are afraid to pass a left turning vehicle, despite ample space for theirs to pass.

You mean pass on the right? I don't understand.

You’re behind a car that has pulled partway into the intersection while waiting for a chance to turn left. It’s only one lane in your direction, but there’s some space between the car in front of you and the corner curb to the right. Is there enough for you to get by?

a. Yes. You’re a spatially competent driver.

b. No. You’re making the lives of every driver behind you harder.

c. Too late. The light has changed.

d. 45 m.p.h. faster than the eastbound train.

Wait! I know this one!  It's D because the plate has three apples on it, so it's worth three, not four.

DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

Someone please explain this to me:

Are afraid to pass a left turning vehicle, despite ample space for theirs to pass.

You mean pass on the right? I don't understand.

You’re behind a car that has pulled partway into the intersection while waiting for a chance to turn left. It’s only one lane in your direction, but there’s some space between the car in front of you and the corner curb to the right. Is there enough for you to get by?
a. Yes. You’re a spacially competent driver.
b. No. You’re making the lives of every driver behind you harder.
c. Too late. The light has changed.
d. 45 m.p.h. faster than the eastbound train.

 I didn't realize this was a thing that got people concerned. The real issue is that many people don't know the dimension of their car to squeeze through a tight space - which is understandable. Not everyone has that innate sense, and it's not something we teach. OTOH - I regularly squeeze through spaces that give my passengers the willies.

I still don't understand what that list of driving grievances has to do with backing into a space though.

Tom_Reingold said:

And just because it's harder to back in does not make a good argument against it. If it's too hard for you, please practice and get better at it so that it's not too hard for you. If you can't learn to back into a spot without hitting a fixed object, you shouldn't be driving a car. Try an easier vehicle.

 Even if you're good at it, it will take several times more time to back in than to pull in. That makes it disruptive to the normal traffic flow in the lot, and is therefore wrong.

Safe driving is all about drivers behaving in predictable and non-disruptive manners. Backing in is neither of those things. People who do it are inconsiderate of their fellow drivers.

This reminds me of another situation that makes me crazy. Under the guise of being "considerate", sometimes people will stop in the middle of the road to let someone out of a driveway. It's one of the most asinine moves imaginable. It's one thing if traffic is at a crawl already, and you don't move forward so as to let someone in. That's courtesy. But to stop a normally flowing lane of traffic to let someone in is nuts.

ml1 said:

mikescott said:
I agree with Film Carp -- it depends on the situation and conditions.  
I do notice since most cars now have the back up cameras more people are backing into spaces.  
I almost always back into spaces at events with very large parking lots and everyone leaves at the same time.  

^this.
Anyone ever try to back out of a space in the Prudential Center parking deck after an event?  If you've had that experience even once, I promise you will back into the space on your next visit.

If you think getting out of crowded lot is hard, imagine what it would be like when trying to park before the event, if everyone in the lot was backing in. You'd never get to the event.

drummerboy said:

ml1 said:

mikescott said:
I agree with Film Carp -- it depends on the situation and conditions.  
I do notice since most cars now have the back up cameras more people are backing into spaces.  
I almost always back into spaces at events with very large parking lots and everyone leaves at the same time.  

^this.
Anyone ever try to back out of a space in the Prudential Center parking deck after an event?  If you've had that experience even once, I promise you will back into the space on your next visit.

If you think getting out of crowded lot is hard, imagine what it would be like when trying to park before the event, if everyone in the lot was backing in. You'd never get to the event.

 And the funny thing is when we're all pulling out as quickly as we like....guess what everyone is pulling out at the same time...and you still stuck waiting your turn to pull out. This whole issue is about selfish behavior, nothing to do with safety. If you are backing out of a space you have to back out slow. Not drive forward like a bat leaving Satan's kitchen.

The_Soulful_Mr_T said:
It's been my observation that only men back into parking spaces. Never seen a woman do it. 
Discuss.

 I am a woman and I sometimes back into spaces. I do so because as I come to a space I can see in more directions and gauge the safety re traffic approaching from either side. That is often NOT the case when backing out of a space because the cars parked next to you block some or all of the view. And just because you may park next to a small car doesn’t guarantee that it won’t have been replaced by a big hunking SUV by the time you return to your car. So I disagree that it is safer to back out than to back in. Of course it takes more care to avoid hitting the car next to you as you back in, but in 40+ years of driving I have never done that. And, in the last few years, backup cameras have made backing into spaces easier and safer. But the risks of backing out ‘blind’ haven’t changed and they are more dependent on ‘the other guy’ while backing in is more dependent on me. (And those other guys are often on their cell phones!) I’ll take backing in whenever legal and safe to do so (certainly not all or even the majority of the time, but definitely preferred by me when the option is available and safe.)

drummerboy said:
 Even if you're good at it, it will take several times more time to back in than to pull in. That makes it disruptive to the normal traffic flow in the lot, and is therefore wrong.
Safe driving is all about drivers behaving in predictable and non-disruptive manners. Backing in is neither of those things. People who do it are inconsiderate of their fellow drivers.
This reminds me of another situation that makes me crazy. Under the guise of being "considerate", sometimes people will stop in the middle of the road to let someone out of a driveway. It's one of the most asinine moves imaginable. It's one thing if traffic is at a crawl already, and you don't move forward so as to let someone in. That's courtesy. But to stop a normally flowing lane of traffic to let someone in is nuts.

 So, when someone brings up a different issue about driving you ask them what it has to do with the topic at hand, and then proceed to bring up a different issue about driving.  But you have drifted to a place recently where you can't seem to accept that others think you are wrong, and they have reasonable reasons for saying so.  I will continue, when the situation is correct, to back in to spots because it is safer for pedestrians, cyclists, and others.  It may inconvenience a driver, but that is less important than safety.

drummerboy said:

If you think getting out of crowded lot is hard, imagine what it would be like when trying to park before the event, if everyone in the lot was backing in. You'd never get to the event.

 At large events (sporting events, concerts, etc) people arrive at staggered times.  More often than not, everyone leaves at the same time when the event ends.  If everyone arrived at the same exact time then there would be a huge mess, regardless of whether or not they were backing in.  Hell, even the roadway leading to the entrances of the venue would be backed up for miles

drummerboy said:
If you think getting out of crowded lot is hard, imagine what it would be like when trying to park before the event, if everyone in the lot was backing in. You'd never get to the event.

not everyone arrives at the same time for an event.  But nearly everyone leaves at the same time.  It's not equivalent at all.

as with almost all discussions, the answer to how should one choose to park is of course -- it depends.  While common sense and common courtesy are unfortunately not all that common, those should be the considerations.  Certainly a person shouldn't hold up 20 drivers to make a dozen maneuvers to get into a parking space.  But if there aren't a lot of other cars around, and a driver can back up into a space in one continuous move, why not?  Unless it's illegal to back into the space of course.

It's like the people who wait a minute or two for someone to back out of a space on Maplewood Ave, and let 20 cars wait behind them.  It's not illegal or improper, but it sure as hell is a dick move.

ml1 said:
as with almost all discussions, the answer to how should one choose to park is of course -- it depends.  While common sense and common courtesy are unfortunately not all that common, those should be the considerations.  Certainly a person shouldn't hold up 20 drivers to make a dozen maneuvers to get into a parking space.  But if there aren't a lot of other cars around, and a driver can back up into a space in one continuous move, why not?  Unless it's illegal to back into the space of course.
It's like the people who wait a minute or two for someone to back out of a space on Maplewood Ave, and let 20 cars wait behind them.  It's not illegal or improper, but it sure as hell is a dick move.

 Actually I asked an officer once if it was legal to hold up traffic waiting for someone to pull out of a spot on Maplewood ave or Sloan street.   It turns out it is  -- just very rarely enforced.  

drummerboy said:

 I didn't realize this was a thing that got people concerned. 

Me, either. Applying all the powers of logic and an indomitable determination to see the complaint through another’s eyes, I made a guess. Whew, it really took it out of me.

mikescott said:
 Actually I asked an officer once if it was legal to hold up traffic waiting for someone to pull out of a spot on Maplewood ave or Sloan street.   It turns out it is  -- just very rarely enforced.  

 Perhaps there should be a law against getting into your car in one of those spots and taking longer than 30 seconds to start it, pull out and leave. Double the fine if your foot is on the brake pedal for more than 30 seconds.

I think we've all been there. You're looking for a parking space, then you see someone get in their car. Much rejoicing. Then for some reason it takes him several minutes actually get their car in motion. And I'm not talking about someone who's putting a kid into a car seat, because I have complete sympathy for that person.

mrincredible said:
 Perhaps there should be a law against getting into your car in one of those spots and taking longer than 30 seconds to start it, pull out and leave. Double the fine if your foot is on the brake pedal for more than 30 seconds.
I think we've all been there. You're looking for a parking space, then you see someone get in their car. Much rejoicing. Then for some reason it takes him several minutes actually get their car in motion. And I'm not talking about someone who's putting a kid into a car seat, because I have complete sympathy for that person.

again, there's common sense and common courtesy.  If a person is driving in a lot, and can pull to the side so people can drive around, that's one thing.  But idling in front of Kings waiting for two minutes while the traffic backs up past Durand, no.

How drummerboy views people who back into parking spots   

https://abcnews.go.com/news/story/team-black-car-silver-car-drivers-dueling-hours-62164556?cid=clicksource_4380645_null_sq_hed

spontaneous said:
How drummerboy views people who back into parking spots   
https://abcnews.go.com/news/story/team-black-car-silver-car-drivers-dueling-hours-62164556?cid=clicksource_4380645_null_sq_hed

 there was a whole seinfeld episode on this topic.  

I am much more annoyed how few drives use turn signals today.

ml1 said:
again, there's common sense and common courtesy.  If a person is driving in a lot, and can pull to the side so people can drive around, that's one thing.  But idling in front of Kings waiting for two minutes while the traffic backs up past Durand, no.

 I agree.  I usually have a "brake lights" rule...if I see someone get into their car and their brake lights go on, I'll stop and wait. I figure that person is ready to go.  

If they sit there then I'll move on.  And then usually as soon as I pass them they pull out and leave.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/02/science-people-really-do-take-longer-leaving-a-parking-spot-when-youre-waiting-for-it/71439/

This made me look at the driveways of police officer families in my neighborhood. Three families of which I know of, two being senior police.

One would assume being police professionals and therefore should be aware of vehicle "issues" they would be the ones best in knowing what to do. None of them back into their driveways.

BG9 said:
This made me look at the driveways of police officer families in my neighborhood. Three families of which I know of, two being senior police.
One would assume being police professionals and therefore should be aware of vehicle "issues" they would be the ones best in knowing what to do. None of them back into their driveways.

 I have a neighbor that is a police officer.  he backs his SUV into the driveway as does his wife.  

Not sure this proves anything other than people do what they think is best for their situation.  

DaveSchmidt said:

drummerboy said:

Someone please explain this to me:

Are afraid to pass a left turning vehicle, despite ample space for theirs to pass.

You mean pass on the right? I don't understand.

You’re behind a car that has pulled partway into the intersection while waiting for a chance to turn left. It’s only one lane in your direction, but there’s some space between the car in front of you and the corner curb to the right. Is there enough for you to get by?
a. Yes. You’re a spatially competent driver.
b. No. You’re making the lives of every driver behind you harder.
c. Too late. The light has changed.
d. 45 m.p.h. faster than the eastbound train.

 Just as irritating are the people afraid to make a left turn at a green traffic light. Even at a T-intersection, like where northbound Wyoming meets South Orange Ave., people turning left leave 8-10 car lengths between them and the car ahead of them, even though they're only going 10 MPH. 

tom said:
 Just as irritating are the people afraid to make a left turn at a green traffic light. Even at a T-intersection, like where northbound Wyoming meets South Orange Ave., people turning left leave 8-10 car lengths between them and the car ahead of them, even though they're only going 10 MPH. 

 It's much safer to text if you leave space in front of you when turning.  I thought everyone knew that.

Reasonable people may disagree, as these photos reveal: 

Midtown South precinct HQ, 357 West 35th Street

NYC Citywide Traffic Task Force, 138 West 30th Street

BG9 said:
This made me look at the driveways of police officer families in my neighborhood. Three families of which I know of, two being senior police.
One would assume being police professionals and therefore should be aware of vehicle "issues" they would be the ones best in knowing what to do. None of them back into their driveways.

I wouldn't look to the police as a model for safe and considerate driving. As a runner, I have repeatedly noted that they tend to use turn signals even less often than other drivers. And I am talking about normal traffic movement, not flashing light and siren situations. 

mikescott said:

BG9 said:
This made me look at the driveways of police officer families in my neighborhood. Three families of which I know of, two being senior police.
One would assume being police professionals and therefore should be aware of vehicle "issues" they would be the ones best in knowing what to do. None of them back into their driveways.

 I have a neighbor that is a police officer.  he backs his SUV into the driveway as does his wife.  
Not sure this proves anything other than people do what they think is best for their situation.  

j_r said:
Reasonable people may disagree: 

Midtown South precinct HQ, 357 West 35th Street
NYC Citywide Traffic Task Force, 138 West 30th Street

 Interesting. If there is generally no agreement then maybe this concern is a triviality.

those who turn the car left in order to then turn right need counseling.

There are many professional drivers who only make left hand turns, -on a race track.

My apologies.